(August 26, 2015 at 6:59 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: We've got a ban on drugs, how's that working for us? Oh, wait, drugs don't kill or effect crime. We tried to ban alcohol, how well did that work for us? What's the irresponsible alcohol related death tole? 

Apples and fucking oranges much?

(August 26, 2015 at 6:55 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Brits are sheep who are OK with being oppressed. 

Yeah, you're an idiot.

(August 26, 2015 at 6:43 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(August 26, 2015 at 6:16 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: People are overlooking the primary lesson from incidents such as this. 

The only people overlooking the primary lesson are people who insinuate this happened for anything other than the fact the perp had access to guns. 

This shit would not, and does not, happen in the UK. It is certainly a much rarer occurrence than the US. Why's that I wonder? Must be a coincidence.

Nap, I'll assume from that you live in the UK. You're profile is of no help as as I have no idea what "Beyond the Wall" means. Assuming you are from the UK, I can understand your befuddlement with the seeming fixation the U.S. has with firearms. We are as flummoxed by the fact that a major 21st century democratic society actually has a queen. It's a cultural thing and those things can run pretty deep.

The U.S. is NOT going to become a gun-free society anytime soon. Don't bother going there because it's not going to happen. It's about as realistic as you guys getting rid of the silly royals and your pansy soccer team and start playing REAL football.

Pissed yet? Good. Now you know how the gun lovers here feel. That's how these cultural things work. It's like religion. It's emotional. As I said up-post, I think the American infatuation with guns is even more emotionally entrenched than it is with Christianity.

(August 26, 2015 at 7:11 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Nap, I'll assume from that you live in the UK. You're profile is of no help as as I have no idea what "Beyond the Wall" means. Assuming you are from the UK, I can understand your befuddlement with the seeming fixation the U.S. has with firearms. We are as flummoxed by the fact that a major 21st century democratic society actually has a queen. It's a cultural thing and those things can run pretty deep.

The U.S. is NOT going to become a gun-free society anytime soon. Don't bother going there because it's not going to happen. It's about as realistic as you guys getting rid of the silly royals and your pansy soccer team and start playing REAL football.

Pissed yet? Good. Now you know how the gun lovers here feel. That's how these cultural things work. It's like religion. It's emotional. As I said up-post, I think the American infatuation with guns is even more emotionally entrenched than it is with Christianity.

The difference is that I can acknowledge how utterly unnecessary and backward the royals are, and I'm all for getting rid of them.

A lot of Americans have a problem addressing the same with their beloved guns however.

You're right it is a cultural thing, but it's still fundamentally different. One's an estabilished ruling society of people that have ruled over the country for hundreds of years. The other is an inanimate object with the sole intention of shooting things.

All in all, not a fair comparison, and another deflection from the fucking problem.

^^ not everyone in the UK supports royalty btw. I and many millions of others are republicans.

(August 26, 2015 at 2:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Gun death is not rare, stop making it about motivation.

In a land with 300 million guns and 315 million people, fourteen thousand deaths per year is relatively rare.

(August 26, 2015 at 2:56 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I'm willing to listen to ideas on limitation and control. Let me know what ya got.  

I say: every handgun or semi-auto gun purchaser, private or retail, should undergo psych eval, and every such gun-owner should undergo psych evals regularly (perhaps annually) to renew his or her permit. Additionally, smart guns, keyed to only the owner by fingerprint or other biometric datum, should be the only new guns allowed for sale.

Couple that with a buyback program to pay market value for dumb guns to be destroyed, we could make a significant impact on the issue, I think, without abrogating the rights of responsible owners.

More like

" You want to go to your neighbor's,"

BAM

"You want to take a drive"

BAM

"Hey check on your kid"

BAM

"Don't worry about your depressed loved one"

BAM

"Let me drop you off at school"

BAM

"Let's go out to eat"

BAM

" Lets go to the movies"

BAM

"Don't worry, that gun was bought legally"

BAM

Every single fucking day! And several times a day.

It's a daily occurrence for me, working in a new and different town everyday, to worry about being shot to death out of the blue. To the point that I eye up whoever makes me feel uneasy for whatever given reason. Thinking about it now, just today I thought a disgruntled looking man was carrying a rifle. His walk had intent. I had to stand there and wait for him to get closer to see that it was an umbrella. It had been raining. The point is I can't assume it's an umbrella. There's no reason I won't be shot one day. There's nothing to stop it except for maybe statistics; being a gun owner will only help other people if they're in trouble, so thats out.

And this doesn't even register on the "how my day went" list. It's just a part of life. Remarking on it would be like noting every time you see a bird.

I've thought of getting a shotgun for the house, in case of a home invasion, but carrying a handgun isn't going to help if someone wants you dead. But that's the solution right now- buying a shotgun so that I might kill somebody who has a gun trying to get in my house. That's what's passing as an acceptable solution. I hate it.

(August 26, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(August 26, 2015 at 7:11 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Nap, I'll assume from that you live in the UK. You're profile is of no help as as I have no idea what "Beyond the Wall" means. Assuming you are from the UK, I can understand your befuddlement with the seeming fixation the U.S. has with firearms. We are as flummoxed by the fact that a major 21st century democratic society actually has a queen. It's a cultural thing and those things can run pretty deep.

The U.S. is NOT going to become a gun-free society anytime soon. Don't bother going there because it's not going to happen. It's about as realistic as you guys getting rid of the silly royals and your pansy soccer team and start playing REAL football.

Pissed yet? Good. Now you know how the gun lovers here feel. That's how these cultural things work. It's like religion. It's emotional. As I said up-post, I think the American infatuation with guns is even more emotionally entrenched than it is with Christianity.

The difference is that I can acknowledge how utterly unnecessary and backward the royals are, and I'm all for getting rid of them.

A lot of Americans have a problem addressing the same with their beloved guns however.

You're right it is a cultural thing, but it's still fundamentally different. One's an estabilished ruling society of people that have ruled over the country for hundreds of years. The other is an inanimate object with the sole intention of shooting things.

All in all, not a fair comparison, and another deflection from the fucking problem.

Do you seriously think this issue is remotely related to an inanimate object? It's about the PEOPLE'S right to possess the power granted to them by possession of that inanimate object. Like I said up-thread: Guns = Power to oppose oppressors. Not the government's power. MINE.

Please understand that I'm not necessarily in that camp but I understand it. I understand the mindset as a 56 year-old American that you as a 22 year-old Brit cannot. Believe me, I understand where you're coming from. You have lived all your life in a modern country where people don't feel the least bit set upon because their government doesn't allow them to own guns. You can look at statistics and see that you're safer because of it. The mindset among many people here is much different. The government limiting their personal power like that is seen as very threatening. This country was founded on the principle of primacy of the people - not the government. The government is here to serve us. As long as we are law-abiding, it should not limit us. That's why don't have anything like a queen who is not accountable to us.

This country is not going to be gun-free until the dominant gun-culture goes away and it won't go away by being pushed against. It'll go away when it is won over by trust that won't come easy.