(September 21, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 7:16 pm)Losty Wrote: Pretty sure he was disputing that he was a militant atheist.

How does Stalin (who WAS atheist) NOT fall under the definition of a "militant atheist"?

How many people did he kill in the name of atheism?

He was an atheist, and he was a militant communist, but he was not a militant atheist.

(September 21, 2015 at 9:01 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 8:32 am)Randy Carson Wrote: How can you not see that the article in the OP is a. confirmation of what I've been saying and that b. the problem is you atheists and not me.

Do you honestly believe that if you joined CAF or any number of Christian forums for the sole purpose of discussing the arguments for and against the existence of God, you would be subjected to the kind of vulgarity and disrespect that is routinely spewed at theists here? At CAF, I'd be banned in a heartbeat if I posted anything like the stuff that Minimalist and others say DAILY here. And it's not because he makes such strong arguments, either. I wish he would, but he seems to have gotten off the train of reason long ago.

Look, I'm not saying that you haven't received rude comments from people who ought to have behaved better in the past - either here or IRL - but the fact that you moderators not only allow this childish behavior but participate in it says all we really need to know about AF, doesn't it?

It's NOT a discussion forum. It's a place to mock religion, and that's what you want it to be.

Randy, in my experience most Christian forums will ban you simply for being a atheist. I was banned from Christianforums.org immediately and on worthy Christian forums they don't ban you out right but they only allow you access to one subforum.

Catholic Answers Forums will not ban you for being an atheist.

They will ban you for behaving like Minimalist.

(September 21, 2015 at 9:02 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 8:32 am)Randy Carson Wrote: How can you not see that the article in the OP is a. confirmation of what I've been saying and that b. the problem is you atheists and not me.

Do you honestly believe that if you joined CAF or any number of Christian forums for the sole purpose of discussing the arguments for and against the existence of God, you would be subjected to the kind of vulgarity and disrespect that is routinely spewed at theists here? At CAF, I'd be banned in a heartbeat if I posted anything like the stuff that Minimalist and others say DAILY here. And it's not because he makes such strong arguments, either. I wish he would, but he seems to have gotten off the train of reason long ago.

Look, I'm not saying that you haven't received rude comments from people who ought to have behaved better in the past - either here or IRL - but the fact that you moderators not only allow this childish behavior but participate in it says all we really need to know about AF, doesn't it?

It's NOT a discussion forum. It's a place to mock religion, and that's what you want it to be.

Randy, 

I've not been a part of all of your threads so I can only speak from my personal experiences here.  In my first week I debated Rob on morality and at the end of the discussion where we reached an impasse we agreed to disagree and he thanked me for the great discussion and even gave me a rep after.  We have had many such discussions on various topics where even when someone vehemently disagrees with my points, the resulting discussion is still polite.  I've had Min throw out his typical attacks, but he was attacking what I believe and not me for believing it.  That's ok, he's entitled to his opinion.  Perhaps making comments like "who's the cupcake now?" are not the best course of action to show people you are trying to engage with them.  

You cannot guarantee that atheist ideas at CAF would be well received as you suggest.  In fact I may even be so bold as to predict that most people here would probably be banned in a week there the moment they start swearing or calling some of the points "crazy" or "stupid".  One thing I like about this place is freedom of expression for ALL.  That is the epitome of a great discussion place is everyone is free to bring up and discuss anything.  Asking what others think about an idea you present is a way to start a discussion, but telling others why what you state is correct and anything counter is wrong is way to stop discussion and start flaming.  Present an idea and get opinions on it and express what you think.  Take Shuffle for example.  He's started multiple threads asking questions to theists on what we think of this or that.  It started lots of discussion with varying ideas.  They were good topics.  Even when I don't agree with someone, I don't tell them they are wrong, because that paints me as condescending or superior (as others have pointed out), I simply state what I think and so I don't agree with their position.  Simple.  Hell, I've flat said I don't take evolution as a fact but I haven't been attacked for it because of how I present my thoughts and how I respond to others.

Um...yeah. Swearing is not allowed at CAF.

Arguing...strenuously...for one's position is, however, as long as you are polite about it.

(September 21, 2015 at 9:08 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Man...these last few threads of Randy's have been like, "Hey, would you guys like to bathe in a lake of my tears? Here you go!"

Heh...yeah, no.

I'm just pointing out the boorish behavior and LACK of intelligent debate.

I'm not crying about how anyone treats me because...

What would you know about intelligent debate, Mr. Copypasta?

(September 21, 2015 at 7:25 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: Um...yeah. Swearing is not allowed at CAF.

Arguing...strenuously...for one's position is, however, as long as you are polite about it.

I haven't been here for around three years so I don't really know what was going on. Mostly because the subtle point I was making that perhaps bias was too much of a thing and we should take a "Its all ok or nothing is ok" approach to things was entirely missed even when people were making my point for me. Anyway, I don't really know whats gone on.

That aside; no swearing? And you think this a good thing? So you censor certain words regardless of their context rather than judge people on the content and meaning of their actual message?
Seems alittle 1984.

(September 21, 2015 at 10:56 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 8:46 am)Randy Carson Wrote: You can stuff that "victim card" schtick where the sun don't shine, dude. That's not the point of my OP.

Nor am I some sunny little evangelical who expects you all to say the sinner's prayer with me because it's all just so obvious that Christianity is true. No, I expect some hard-nosed give-and-take, and I was hoping for some honest discussion of the issues. Atheism has some strong arguments, and I have to face them. But theism has some good arguments, too...despite what you may have heard from the low-information atheists in this forum.

But forgive me if I've invaded one (and only one, btw) subforum of YOUR HOUSE (the idea of which contradicts what others have said about this being a public forum) which was set up ostensibly for the purpose of discussing Christianity and then ACTUALLY ATTEMPTING to discuss Christianity.

Oh, I see where I went wrong...this subforum is where atheists gather to mock Christianity...not to discuss it.

Perhaps the sign on the door needs to be changed to reflect what Tiberius, Cthulhu Dreaming and others really envision.

When you speak to us like dogs, and then try to claim that the reason we counterattack is because we're just here to bash Christians, it's playing the victim card. Period. Are we less likely to give "benefit of the doubt" to Christians, based on our long, collective experience with proselytizing types? You betcha. But we don't attack because of a person's faith. Look at the Christians here with better reps than most of the atheists here, despite their strong faith-stance. It's you, Randy.

No, it's really not.

1. You guys bullied Catholic Lady right out of the forum. She's back, but yeah.
2. The author of the article I posted has observed the same phenomenon at other forums.

It's a pattern that is repeated by atheists against other Christians...not just me.

Now, you can either admit there's a problem and begin to police your own or you can live with the reputation a few pukes are sticking you with. Your call.

Quote:Your second paragraph is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. I grew up as an evangelical, and I still own or have read a large number of apologetics books, from Mere Christianity  to Orthodoxy  to The Case for Christ  to Darwin on Trial  to The Language of God, et cetera.  In college, I read large excerpts from guys like St. Augustine and St. Jerome, as part of Biblical History courses. So your comment, "...despite what you may have heard from the low-information atheists in this forum" is not only snarky, it's revealing of your bias against us as atheists out of ignorance of The Truth™.

Wrong. There are a small number of atheists in THIS forum who have distinguished themselves as being a cut above. I can name them on one hand.

Quote:This is indeed a public forum. And all are welcome. We have said so repeatedly. I have said so previous to this post, in this thread. But it is still our house; it is "a safe place" for atheists to gather. We have a Christianity sub-forum on which we discuss many elements of Christianity-- more often than not, what we are discussing, if you'll look, is the myriad ways in which Christians attack non-believers (often causing cruel treatment of us by family members and/or social circles), try to push their religion into law or social policy (into our lives), or the ways in which the dominant form of Christianity in our countries will attack science, education, and liberty. On occasion, a theist or an atheist will post a thread that is about apologetics or other doctrine, and a discussion will ensue. But it's not the purpose  of the thread, nor is it our job to give one shred of leeway to someone who makes bald assertions or copypastas, or who is demeaning or derogatory toward us, and you have a long history of doing so. I've silently sat back and watched you do it, to my increasing frustration, until I felt I had to say something, at last, here.

And yes, we do mock Christianity. [emphasis added]There is much about it that deserves mockery. Even other Christians mock Christianity; entire professional comedic careers -- Mark Lowry, for instance, whom I've seen live twice (my mom's a huge fan). Much of what the 40,000 denominations think about theology is outright hilarious! And from our perspective, most of it is pretty funny...think of the way you see Hindu rituals or the Muslims praying en masse, with their asses in the guy's face behind them. And as I have said, this is our "safe space" in which we can say the things we could never say in real life, while the Christians who surround us have no problem lying about atheism, making atheists out to be untrustworthy and evil, and with socially ostracizing us for no other reason than an expression of our nonbelief. Some of us are going to mock.

Thank you for that admission. Now that we all know that serious discussion is NOT on the menu...let's all have some waffles and play Mafia. We can even hold hands and sing Kumbaya as a sign of our new-found unity.

Quote:In the end, we are in every conceivable way more open than our counterparts on the Christian forums, by a long shot. The mockery you experience from us here is a fraction of what most of us go through in real life all the time, something we would never do to others. Hell, the fact that I'm still talking to you after you've told me I'm ignorant of Christianity, pretended that the reason we say mean things to you is because we just want to attack Christianity and not discuss it (rather than a response to the hostile way in which you discuss  with us), and telling me to shove my "victim card schtick" up my ass, should indicate to you that we do not prohibit you in any way for your Christianity, but only for the way in which it is presented.

Rubbish. You could be a member for years at CAF without being mocked to the extent that I'm routinely mocked here...or banned for that matter. As long as you are polite, you can disagree all day long with God, the Church, the Bible, whatever.

Give it a try. Start a thread at CAF...make your best case for why atheism is true. OMG, how I would love for you to try.

Cya there.

"make your best case for why atheism is true"

There are people who don't believe in any gods. Boom. Checkmate.

"As long as you are polite"

You mean polite like you, Randy, or actually polite?

(September 21, 2015 at 6:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(September 21, 2015 at 8:07 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Of course not. But if I were a cupcake, I wouldn't have joined to begin with.

Conversely, do you have the stones to take your pathetic arguments AGAINST theism to CAF?

Who's the cupcake now?

I don't feel the need to push my atheism onto believers.

It's not about PUSHING your atheism onto others, PT, it's about seeing whether your atheism can stand up to serious scrutiny. And if you're right, then the world would be a better place with a few less Christians screwing it all up, so why NOT try to make a case for what you believe. Unless you're concerned that you might not be able to do so...

Quote:Do you see now how your image of at least one atheist is skewed? If I behaved as you do, you'd call me an "angry atheist". But since I don't conform to the stereotype in your head, you think I cannot stand up for my lack of belief. You don't understand that others don't don't share your obnoxious urge to proselytize.

I'm sorry...I think you have me confused with your evangelical neighborS/co-workerS/parents. I'm presenting the arguments and evidence for Christianity and God's existence, and all I'm getting is memes in return.

Next, someone will whine, "But we've heard it all before...". Then refuting my arguments should be EASY. (I'm not seeing that.)

Quote:If you don't like objections to your preaching, there are several options available to you. Yet you avail yourself of none of them, instead preferring to whine when you aren't greeted with open arms.

If you're going to dish it out, don't whine when it gets handed back to you.

If you don't like what I'm saying, then stay the hell out of my threads.

I don't follow you into other subforums and badger any of you there, do I? Isn't that what a TRUE troll would do? No, I stay in this subforum and post largely in my own threads with only an occasional comment in others threads.

If you're not comfortable with what I have to say, DON'T READ IT.