(November 3, 2015 at 4:25 pm)Lek Wrote: I've never been in a shootout, but I'm not stupid enough to stand there and let him shoot me in the head..

Ah yes, a real armchair general. You haven't been in a shootout, that's obvious. Otherwise you would know, it's pure chaos. Not something like a Steven Degal movie or John Wayne riding into the sunset. Takes trained people to deal with that. Not some wannabe hero, who hasn't got a clue.

Oh, and if you happen to end up in one, be ready to have some spare pants in your pack. If a coffin isn't your final destination, that is.

(November 3, 2015 at 4:42 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 3, 2015 at 4:25 pm)Lek Wrote: I've never been in a shootout, but I'm not stupid enough to stand there and let him shoot me in the head..

Ah yes, a real armchair general. You haven't been in a shootout, that's obvious. Otherwise you would know, it's pure chaos. Not something like a Steven Degal movie or John Wayne riding into the sunset. Takes trained people to deal with that. Not some wannabe hero, who hasn't got a clue.

Oh, and if you happen to end up in one, be ready to have some spare pants in your pack. If a coffin isn't your final destination, that is.

OK. I hear you. You can stand there and let him shoot you. As for me, I'm gonna get moving.

(November 3, 2015 at 5:00 pm)Lek Wrote: OK.  I hear you.  You can stand there and let him shoot you.  As for me, I'm gonna get moving.

Tell you what. Let's talk some more when you survived the real deal. Especially on the moving part.

(November 3, 2015 at 5:01 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 3, 2015 at 5:00 pm)Lek Wrote: OK.  I hear you.  You can stand there and let him shoot you.  As for me, I'm gonna get moving.

Tell you what. Let's talk some more when you survived the real deal. Especially on the moving part.

Are you advising me to do what they did in that situation and just stand still while he shoots me instead of trying to do something?

(November 3, 2015 at 5:25 pm)Lek Wrote: Are you advising me to do what they did in that situation and just stand still while he shoots me instead of trying to do something?

No, I'm advising you to not talk out of your ass if you haven't got a clue what you're running your mouth on. I had the dubious pleasure to be in a shootout twice. In 1985 and 1994.

Well, maybe you are the newborn superhero, but I reserve my judgment on that until you actually have experienced it. Here's a hint though. Mother nature sets us certain limits in lethal danger. Trained professionals are, well, trained to ovecome these limits.

(November 3, 2015 at 5:29 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 3, 2015 at 5:25 pm)Lek Wrote: Are you advising me to do what they did in that situation and just stand still while he shoots me instead of trying to do something?

No, I'm advising you to not talk out of your ass if you haven't got a clue what you're running your mouth on. I had the dubious pleasure to be in a shootout twice. In 1985 and 1994.

Well, maybe you are the newborn superhero, but I reserve my judgment on that until you actually have experienced it. Here's a hint though. Mother nature sets us certain limits in lethal danger. Trained professionals are, well, trained to ovecome these limits.

I hear you loud and clear, but there were no trained individuals present. They had two choices - stand still and get shot or move and maybe not get shot. They couldn't say to the shooter "Stop. Wait until I go get a weapon and some training, then I'll back." Obviously, we need trained people with weapons in the schools, but that's another issue.

(November 3, 2015 at 5:43 pm)Lek Wrote: I hear you loud and clear, but there were no trained individuals present.  They had two choices - stand still and get shot or move and maybe not get shot.

But there's nature. That's why I say, if you haven't experienced mortal danger, you can't give informed judgment. I understand them perfectly well. Carson doesn't. And therein lies the problem and the reason for the ridicule.

(November 3, 2015 at 5:47 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 3, 2015 at 5:43 pm)Lek Wrote: I hear you loud and clear, but there were no trained individuals present.  They had two choices - stand still and get shot or move and maybe not get shot.

But there's nature. That's why I say, if you haven't experienced mortal danger, you can't give informed judgment. I understand them perfectly well. Carson doesn't. And therein lies the problem and the reason for the ridicule.

I know. I'm not berating the actions of the victims, but I think we should try to prepare ourselves mentally for a situation like this these days. If you've thought it over beforehand and planned, you're more likely to act in a certain manner if you encounter a situation. That's one of the benefits of training for anything. That why we get the advice to run if we're forced at gunpoint to enter a vehicle. Ben Carson was asked a question as to what he would do in that situation and he gave an honest and reasonable reply.

(November 3, 2015 at 6:06 pm)Lek Wrote: Ben Carson was asked a question as to what he would do in that situation and he gave an honest and reasonable reply.

He may have given an honest reply. Reasonable is up for debate, since he doesn't know about his insticts taking control. For me, it's all a blur, with the prevalent feeling of cowering behind my ambulance. But I wouldn't know for sure and asked later, I couldn't give an accurate description of what happened.

Btw, that's also the topic of various vids on the web. Most people are paralized like some deer in the headlights. Some do act, but chances are, if armed, they're shooting innocents. Chances also are, they get shot themselves.

A lot of university experiments came to that conclusion. And, going by personal experience, I totally subscribe to these findings.

Quote:Obviously, we need trained people with weapons in the schools, but that's another issue.

Bullshit.  They have "trained people with weapons" in the schools.  They call them "school resource officers" and they beat the shit out of the kids when they get bored.