I think the film 'The Book of Eli' is a depressing reminder of what would happen in principle; even if religion, in this case Christianity, had been the ultimate cause of a world war and nuclear holocaust, some numpty would come along and try and save the last remnant of that cause, in this case the Bible, thinking it to be the most beautiful and precious thing ever created. And the cycle would start again. In other words, religion is going nowhere

How we can get rid of religion?

Education and elimination of poverty seems to be a good first step. Promoting critical thinking also would be necessary. Legislation too would play a role - church tax paid only by believers would be a good thing, as I see no reason for which atheist should pay for meetings of supernatural fans. After all that we could just wait, but I'm afraid that we would wait for a long time.

(January 30, 2016 at 3:55 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: How we can get rid of religion?

Education and elimination of poverty seems to be a good first step. Promoting critical thinking also would be necessary. Legislation too would play a role - church tax paid only by believers would be a good thing, as I see no reason for which atheist should pay for meetings of supernatural fans. After all that we could just wait, but I'm afraid that we would wait for a long time.

I think certain religious institutions should be banned as the dangerous hate groups they are.

Thoughts?

(January 29, 2016 at 10:51 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: How do we get rid of religion?

It's not happening.

P.S. I'm a turtle. I have turtley things to do.

(January 29, 2016 at 11:24 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(January 29, 2016 at 11:18 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Why do we need to get rid of religion? Is it even possible? I doubt so. If we haven't even got rid of people who believe the earth is flat, let alone religious people.

That's a good point. Thank you for adding some further details to that point of view.

I could say my bit, but I feel I should stay out of it for now - I don't want to make it seem like I'm pushing my own agenda. Let us talk about anything else you guys want and maybe we'll get back to religion in one way or another later on.

I'm sorry if I'm being awkward. I can be like that.

To briefly answer your questions however:
1) Because it's not only useless, but actually bad.
2) Of course it's possible. All you have to do is figure out how to effectively talk people out of their beliefs. - At least that's my take on it.( I'll stop adding further caveats to any one future point I'll be making regarding how sure I am of what I'm saying, as that would be very tiresome indeed.)

Is religious belief inherently bad? Was there anything harmful about certain sects of Native Americans worshiping the ground they lived off of and believing in the inter-connectivity of all members of the animal kingdom? I would disagree with the statement that all religion is bad. I would agree, however, that organized religion is bad. Organized religion can be (and has been) used by a ruling class with ulterior motives (obedience, war, etc.)

As to the question of eradicating religion, I do not think it is possible. I personally believe that religious and spiritual belief is natural to human beings. Let's make an absurd hypothetical situation: almost the entire world is somehow destroyed. Humans start over. No established language, no established cultures, and obviously no religion. We're essentially rewinding the clock about 5,000 years. Day 1 for the New Humans. They have no clue what anything is. They begin to realize that the big glowing thing in the sky is giving them warmth. They realize that certain things will grow only under the glowing thing's light. They realize that without it they will die. So they collectively decide that this thing that dictates their fate deserves their respect and worship. They begin offering it gifts and prayer/song to show their respect and to make sure that it returns to them every morning. The first religion is born.  But really, you don't need to make a post-apocalyptic hypothhetical. This is exactly what happened in ancient times. For this reason, I believe religious belief will always exist.

(January 31, 2016 at 5:48 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(January 30, 2016 at 3:55 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote: How we can get rid of religion?

Education and elimination of poverty seems to be a good first step. Promoting critical thinking also would be necessary. Legislation too would play a role - church tax paid only by believers would be a good thing, as I see no reason for which atheist should pay for meetings of supernatural fans. After all that we could just wait, but I'm afraid that we would wait for a long time.

I think certain religious institutions should be banned as the dangerous hate groups they are.

Thoughts?

Polish catholicism is something that I would like to see banned. But it is impossible in so clerical country and with politicians who consider kissing clergy ass as a privilege.

Also one can't erase line of thinking represented by believers by banning. It would be only a good start, but road to national health still would be long.

(January 31, 2016 at 6:58 pm)Aegon Wrote:

(January 29, 2016 at 11:24 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: That's a good point. Thank you for adding some further details to that point of view.

I could say my bit, but I feel I should stay out of it for now - I don't want to make it seem like I'm pushing my own agenda. Let us talk about anything else you guys want and maybe we'll get back to religion in one way or another later on.

I'm sorry if I'm being awkward. I can be like that.

To briefly answer your questions however:
1) Because it's not only useless, but actually bad.
2) Of course it's possible. All you have to do is figure out how to effectively talk people out of their beliefs. - At least that's my take on it.( I'll stop adding further caveats to any one future point I'll be making regarding how sure I am of what I'm saying, as that would be very tiresome indeed.)

Is religious belief inherently bad? Was there anything harmful about certain sects of Native Americans worshiping the ground they lived off of and believing in the inter-connectivity of all members of the animal kingdom? I would disagree with the statement that all religion is bad. I would agree, however, that organized religion is bad. Organized religion can be (and has been) used by a ruling class with ulterior motives (obedience, war, etc.)

As to the question of eradicating religion, I do not think it is possible. I personally believe that religious and spiritual belief is natural to human beings. Let's make an absurd hypothetical situation: almost the entire world is somehow destroyed. Humans start over. No established language, no established cultures, and obviously no religion. We're essentially rewinding the clock about 5,000 years. Day 1 for the New Humans. They have no clue what anything is. They begin to realize that the big glowing thing in the sky is giving them warmth. They realize that certain things will grow only under the glowing thing's light. They realize that without it they will die. So they collectively decide that this thing that dictates their fate deserves their respect and worship. They begin offering it gifts and prayer/song to show their respect and to make sure that it returns to them every morning. The first religion is born.  But really, you don't need to make a post-apocalyptic hypothhetical. This is exactly what happened in ancient times. For this reason, I believe religious belief will always exist.

Yes, believing any untrue things about the world is inherently bad.

I reject your scenario. I am talking about the current world assumming we won't regress that drastically, and even if we did, that we would eventually reach and surpass this earlier point of development anyway.

We are skeptics. Therefore yes, it is possible to be human and rational, to the best of your abilities. This has already been said by some, but all you need to do is change exactly one generation's mind, and you've eradicated religion forever.

On a personal note, I'm quite astonished that so many atheists seem to think religion will be around forever. Frankly, it makes me laugh, especially since I have absolutely no reason to believe so. As far as we know, superstitious tendencies are always born as (bad) explanations about the way the world works where better explanations are initially unavailable. I realise that what we've done, as an intellectual species, is quite shocking and seemingly unique at a grander scale, and that only very recently(in broad historical times) has the most progress been achieved, but that's no reason to think of the future in terms of the past. I think we have every reason to believe we have a real chance of transforming the current global zeigeist within this century in this particular regard, and that this, if properly done, would probably save us a lot of time in the long-run. I believe religious beliefs(and other such nonsense) are putting an unnecessary constraint on logic, imagination, creativity, etc. - you name it. I am partly basing this on my own experience as both a believer and a non-believer and partly on reflecting on the behaviour(of all kinds) of religios folks and making the connection between that and the basics of their worldviews.

I am kindly asking you to contribute to the conversation by raising legitimate objections with anything said so far instead of taking the passive-agressive route and throwing unintelligeble gifs at whoever.

Mayhaps I mischaracterized the nature of your posts. If that is so, I apologize in advance.

Thank you.