(January 31, 2016 at 10:44 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(January 31, 2016 at 6:58 pm)Aegon Wrote: Is religious belief inherently bad? Was there anything harmful about certain sects of Native Americans worshiping the ground they lived off of and believing in the inter-connectivity of all members of the animal kingdom? I would disagree with the statement that all religion is bad. I would agree, however, that organized religion is bad. Organized religion can be (and has been) used by a ruling class with ulterior motives (obedience, war, etc.)

As to the question of eradicating religion, I do not think it is possible. I personally believe that religious and spiritual belief is natural to human beings. Let's make an absurd hypothetical situation: almost the entire world is somehow destroyed. Humans start over. No established language, no established cultures, and obviously no religion. We're essentially rewinding the clock about 5,000 years. Day 1 for the New Humans. They have no clue what anything is. They begin to realize that the big glowing thing in the sky is giving them warmth. They realize that certain things will grow only under the glowing thing's light. They realize that without it they will die. So they collectively decide that this thing that dictates their fate deserves their respect and worship. They begin offering it gifts and prayer/song to show their respect and to make sure that it returns to them every morning. The first religion is born.  But really, you don't need to make a post-apocalyptic hypothhetical. This is exactly what happened in ancient times. For this reason, I believe religious belief will always exist.

Yes, believing any untrue things about the world is inherently bad.

I reject your scenario. I am talking about the current world assumming we won't regress that drastically, and even if we did, that we would eventually reach and surpass this earlier point of development anyway.

We are skeptics. Therefore yes, it is possible to be human and rational, to the best of your abilities. This has already been said by some, but all you need to do is change exactly one generation's mind, and you've eradicated religion forever.

On a personal note, I'm quite astonished that so many atheists seem to think religion will be around forever. Frankly, it makes me laugh, especially since I have absolutely no reason to believe so. As far as we know, superstitious tendencies are always born as (bad) explanations about the way the world works where better explanations are initially unavailable. I realise that what we've done, as an intellectual species, is quite shocking and seemingly unique at a grander scale, and that only very recently(in broad historical times) has the most progress been achieved, but that's no reason to think of the future in terms of the past. I think we have every reason to believe we have a real chance of transforming the current global zeigeist within this century in this particular regard, and that this, if properly done, would probably save us a lot of time in the long-run. I believe religious beliefs(and other such nonsense) are putting an unnecessary constraint on logic, imagination, creativity, etc. - you name it. I am partly basing this on my own experience as both a believer and a non-believer and partly on reflecting on the behaviour(of all kinds) of religios folks and making the connection between that and the basics of their worldviews.

Explain to me why believing any untrue thing about the world is inherently bad. To your other point, there has to be something to be skeptical of in order to be a skeptic. Also remember that a sizable portion of atheists were once religious. And many bad explanations and practices have been eradicated through new knowledge and technology, yes...but religion has always been there through all of it.

Quote:Explain to me why believing any untrue thing about the world is inherently bad.

Well, I'm sorry. Is the word bad to have any meaning at all if we can't even use it when talking about false beliefs about the world? How can believing something untrue be good? I can see some scenarios where that would very well be the case, but at the same time I'm quite confident you're not exactly arguing with me about this on philosophical grounds, rather your position is much simpler than that. Would you please explain to me what your actual position on this is, so I can better explain to you mine? For instance, do you believe that religion can be good? If so, how - provide examples and the necessary reasoning, please.


But really, I think here we are arguing about the definition of the word bad. Please tell me what you understand by it, so I can see how it doesn't work for you in this instance. I'm certainly not referring to this definition: 
NORTH AMERICAN informal
good; excellent.
"they want the baddest, best-looking Corvette there is"

Quote:To your other point, there has to be something to be skeptical of in order to be a skeptic. 

Wouldn't you consider yourself to be a skeptic? I have no idea where you're going with this. I feel like you're not actually adressing what I really said.

Quote:Also remember that a sizable portion of atheists were once religious.

That only goes to show that people can change.

Quote:And many bad explanations and practices have been eradicated through new knowledge and technology, yes...but religion has always been there through all of it.

What does that even mean? That religion is still around, despite all the progress in other areas?

Double post.

The thing is I don't share your enthusiasm for an end to religion. So I won't contribute one second of thought. It does make me wonder what motivates your extreme animus toward religion. And I don't wish you luck on your venture. Rather than fix the world I suggest you work on yourself. Save everyone a lot of trouble.

Quote:The thing is I don't share your enthusiasm for an end to religion. 

Why not?

EP, you seem to make it harder and harder for anyone to like you.

You should check into that.

(January 31, 2016 at 11:31 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: I am kindly asking you to contribute to the conversation by raising legitimate objections with anything said so far instead of taking the passive-agressive route and throwing unintelligeble gifs at whoever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10sxcRPhp-k

I feel like it's an awkward episode of pinky and the brain. What are we doing today EP? "The same thing we do every night, try to destroy all religions!" *fails*

Quote:EP, you seem to make it harder and harder for anyone to like you.

How so?

Quote:You should check into that.

Why?

If you have to ask.