https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

”Wikipedia” Wrote:The dark matter hypothesis attempts to explain observations of gravitational effects on visible matter, gravitational lensing of background radiation and to account for discrepancies between two calculations of the universe's mass. Calculations made through dynamical and general relativistic means are much greater than those based on the mass of the visible "luminous" matter.

Dark matter, spirit and consciousness are all hypothetical existences that cannot be directly observed, but only inferred as explanations for that which can be observed.

You all know my views on theism and they have not changed. The existence or nonexistence of spirit has no more bearing on the existence of god than the existence of felines has on the existence of the Cat in the Hat.

My purpose here is to look honestly at the phenomenal world. I would not be honest of I did not put science through the same rigors that I do religion. So friends, lovers, brothers, sisters, and all the ships at sea, let’s look at this question and work out an answer that is worthy of those who pride themselves in scientific reasoning.

Question is this” how is it that we give serious scientific consideration to the possibility of the existence of dark matter, and consciousness but dismiss the possibility of spirit when evidence for all these is based on the same thing.

Dark matter is posited because of the difference in what was expected and what was actually captured by the scientific equipment.. Spirits on the other hand, are usually just anecdotal things with no evidence other than what people say they've seen, like the Loch Ness monster and Yetis. Until there is some actual evidence it can be lump[ed along with all the other myths.

The spirit is a superstitious explanation of consciousness, which we now know to be a process of the brain, the soul has no basis in reality. Dark matter is a hypothesis to explain the lack of observable mass in the universe, we don't know what dark matter is, but we know 80% of the universe is composed of something unobservable, it's simply a matter of figuring out how it can be observed. Higgs Boson was a hypothesis, with as much basis in science as dark matter, it took a lot of work, but it was eventually confirmed. With science.
No one has ever demonstrated evidence for the existence of the soul, not through observation or postulation based on a credible hypothesis; this is because the idea is vague and unfalsifiable, no one has ever even defined what a soul is on paper, whereas people have formed credible ideas on what dark matter might be.

(February 8, 2016 at 2:40 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Dark matter is posited because of the difference in what was expected and what was actually captured by the scientific equipment.. Spirits on the other hand, are usually just anecdotal things with no evidence other than what people say they've seen, like the Loch Ness monster and Yetis. Until there is some actual evidence it can be lump[ed along with all the other myths.

In what way does dark matter satisfy the discrepancy in the equation?

(February 8, 2016 at 2:56 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: The spirit is a superstitious explanation of consciousness, which we now know to be a process of the brain, the soul has no basis in reality. Dark matter is a hypothesis to explain the lack of observable mass in the universe, we don't know what dark matter is, but we know 80% of the universe is composed of something unobservable, it's simply a matter of figuring out how it can be observed. Higgs Boson was a hypothesis, with as much basis in science as dark matter, it took a lot of work, but it was eventually confirmed. With science.
No one has ever demonstrated evidence for the existence of the soul, not through observation or postulation based on a credible hypothesis; this is because the idea is vague and unfalsifiable, no one has ever even defined what a soul is on paper, whereas people have formed credible ideas on what dark matter might be.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I want you to think more deeply about how you explain this.

If no one can observe dark matter or say what it is how is that different from spirit? Everybody thinks the evidence they present to support their ideas is credible. I want you to show me why yours is. It’s not hard. Is the word “postulation” a clue?

(February 8, 2016 at 3:02 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(February 8, 2016 at 2:40 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Dark matter is posited because of the difference in what was expected and what was actually captured by the scientific equipment.. Spirits on the other hand, are usually just anecdotal things with no evidence other than what people say they've seen, like the Loch Ness monster and Yetis. Until there is some actual evidence it can be lump[ed along with all the other myths.

In what way does dark matter satisfy the discrepancy in the equation?

In short, observations of the rotational rate of spiral galaxies does not jive with the expected rates under Newtonian theories of motion as modified by Relativity.

There are really only two reasonable explanations for this: our understanding of the relationship between mass and gravity is wrong, or there's more mass present that we (so far) can only observe by it's gravitational interaction with matter that we can see.

There is evidence for dark matter, the word "spirit" cannot be compared to dark matter. Dark matter has a scientific definition. "spirit" is a gap answer word rooted in a superstitious past. I see no need to cling to old words that are really just the product of human imagination out of a fear of being finite.

The reality is, you are your brain in motion, that's all. Destroy that structure, your brain wont be in tact or in motion, you die, and stay dead. No, that is not comforting to most humans, but that is the reality.

There are si fi versions of an "afterlife" which are just as much bunk as old standard woo. Some people think atoms hold our thoughts. Certainly they do, but only as molecules as part of an in tact structure. An atom by itself is not an entire in tact brain, not even on the quantum level can a mere wave function act as an in tact human brain.

Just like if you smashed your computer into tiny unusable parts, it will not act as the in tact computer.

The only "forever" there is is that we are really made up of 14 billion year old material, stardust, but in cosmic time, no, we simply die, and our structure breaks down and what we call "I" as the individual, does not go on.

(February 8, 2016 at 3:18 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote: If no one can observe dark matter [...]

Hold on, we have a problem here. The existence of "dark matter" was hypothesized as an explanation for observed phenomena. It isn't the only candidate hypothesis up for consideration (Modified Newtonian Dynamics [i.e. we got the math wrong]) is another). Experiments are under way to determine which -if any- hypothesis is correct

It isn't that we can't observe dark matter, we're observing *something*, we're just not certain what's causing it, and we're developing tests to find out.

Do we have any experiments to demonstrate spirits?

(February 8, 2016 at 3:18 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(February 8, 2016 at 2:56 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: The spirit is a superstitious explanation of consciousness, which we now know to be a process of the brain, the soul has no basis in reality. Dark matter is a hypothesis to explain the lack of observable mass in the universe, we don't know what dark matter is, but we know 80% of the universe is composed of something unobservable, it's simply a matter of figuring out how it can be observed. Higgs Boson was a hypothesis, with as much basis in science as dark matter, it took a lot of work, but it was eventually confirmed. With science.
No one has ever demonstrated evidence for the existence of the soul, not through observation or postulation based on a credible hypothesis; this is because the idea is vague and unfalsifiable, no one has ever even defined what a soul is on paper, whereas people have formed credible ideas on what dark matter might be.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I want you to think more deeply about how you explain this.

If no one can observe dark matter or say what it is how is that different from spirit?  Everybody thinks the evidence they present to support their ideas is credible. I want you to show me why yours is. It’s not hard. Is the word “postulation” a clue?

You are a really nice person, but this is also why I highly recommend people read "The New Atheism" by Victor Stenger. He is correct in that book that science DOES have something to say about the "unseen".

Think about it, you cant see where the water goes down the drain of your tub, but you DO see the affects gravity has on the water. Same with a black hole. We do know through science formulas now, what goes on inside a black hole even though we cant see it with the naked eye. We do see the affects the black hole has on the material we do see it sucking in.

Dark matter is simply something we need to study, and we study it by what it does to the things it has an affect on. That is how we know it exists.

(February 8, 2016 at 3:18 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(February 8, 2016 at 2:56 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: The spirit is a superstitious explanation of consciousness, which we now know to be a process of the brain, the soul has no basis in reality. Dark matter is a hypothesis to explain the lack of observable mass in the universe, we don't know what dark matter is, but we know 80% of the universe is composed of something unobservable, it's simply a matter of figuring out how it can be observed. Higgs Boson was a hypothesis, with as much basis in science as dark matter, it took a lot of work, but it was eventually confirmed. With science.
No one has ever demonstrated evidence for the existence of the soul, not through observation or postulation based on a credible hypothesis; this is because the idea is vague and unfalsifiable, no one has ever even defined what a soul is on paper, whereas people have formed credible ideas on what dark matter might be.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I want you to think more deeply about how you explain this.

If no one can observe dark matter or say what it is how is that different from spirit?  Everybody thinks the evidence they present to support their ideas is credible. I want you to show me why yours is. It’s not hard. Is the word “postulation” a clue?

Galaxies require large amounts of matter in a cluster to generate the gravitational force that is needed to hold them together; by observing their light, it was found that galaxies contained far less visible matter than was necessary to keep them from drifting apart, meaning there was an unseen form of matter that generated gravity but didn't emit light - dark matter. We can't observe dark matter directly, but we can observe its effects.

Meanwhile, generations of ancient primitives generated the idea of the spirit as early attempts to understand the nature of consciousness, their ideas have been refuted. The end.