(March 10, 2016 at 11:22 am)Minimalist Wrote: They have conned themselves into thinking that a "well-regulated militia" means every shithead with a gun.

Meanwhile, here you go 'Murrica.  Enjoy your guns.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/multiple...ng-report/

Quote:At least four people killed in late-night Pennsylvania shooting: report

Why DOES this keep happening here?

Because scared paranoid moronic gun worshipers think we will become a dictatorship if we address our gun death problem and flooded market.

Good answer.

(March 10, 2016 at 11:30 am)Brian37 Wrote: Because scared paranoid moronic gun worshipers think we will become a dictatorship if we address our gun death problem and flooded market.

The suggestions, arguments, and rationalizations for the many plans, if we can call them that, to reduce our gun death problem give them good reason to be scared and paranoid...even if they -are- nitwits. It's not as if the 2nd amendment bit is the only troubling portion (or even the most) of this debate. They're desperate, they're latching onto something they think just -can't- be beaten. They're wrong, but hey, hard to blame em.

(March 10, 2016 at 11:31 am)Minimalist Wrote: Good answer.

I am really  fucking sick of the right and the NRA controlling the narrative. There is no religious or political party oath to own a firearm, but if these morons think all it takes at time of buy is no record to be "responsible" they are full of shit. Nobody is trying to take rights away for simply saying the conditions of attitudes simply are not pragmatic. 

I DO NOT BLAME THE OWNERS, I BLAME THE MARKETING AND FEAR used to protect profits. Just like big tobacco lied about it's products. 

YES you have the right to own a gun. But you don't have the right to drive a monster truck on a public road through a school zone 100mph. Laws have to change with changing technology and we no longer just have muskets. The founders never intended on the second amendment being a no rules at all  free for all, and even it says "well regulated".

I promise the childish brats dicks will not fall off and we will NOT become a fascist state, if you simply put some pragmatism about the amount we make and where they end up, and some you simply want but really don't need. Guns are not toys but we have a very bad attitude about them and far too many people worship them like Isis worships the Quran. 

The left does not want the right to go away, we just want you to stop living in your delusion that everything is a John Wayne movie.

Here you are, and consistently -have been-, peddling fear and misinformation yourself. Elements of both the far right and far left (and some inbetween) have been feeding off of each other. There's no sense in pointing the crooked finger out at others for what one has contributed to themselves.

Why can;t we agree that we need to -directly- address suicides and the drug war? That will solve our problem because it -is- our problem. Why not talk about enforcing our laws? Whats all this left/right, guns/no guns shit going to do about that?

The short answer is that suicides are far too complex an issue for our current state of political discourse and there are far too many people making a fortune out of the "drug war."

Here's another "responsible" legal gun buyer.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/09/us/gun-act...d=22110685

Don't let the "militia" bit fool you. You may have seen the "massive mobilization of patriotic militia men" when that siege went down in Oregon? Drunks with guns do not make a militia. Feel free to ignore the following historical account.

When we formed the US under the Constitution the founders were concerned that big government institutions would require taxation and that would lead to domination of the country by the Feds. (This is in the time when it was "These United States" rather than "The United States" and "states' rights" were very important.)

One of the institutions they avoided was a standing army that could put up a resonable defense against an invader, say an army from Canada. They want it to be true that the locals could form up on short notice and create militia groups that could be formed into an ad hoc army of defense. They offered no pay for this, and gave very little support to the local militia. As a result we were not ready when the British burned Washington in 1814.

But since they wanted it to be true, they decided that it was true. So they added an Amendment that stated people would always be allowed to carry (bear) their long guns to militia training sessions.

The ardent gunners ignore the first part of the 2A, the reason it is there at all, and focus imperfectly on the part about "bear arms". The distortions stem from a desire to have their toys and not pay for them with anything but money.

(March 10, 2016 at 11:52 am)Rhythm Wrote: Here you are, and consistently -have been-, peddling fear and misinformation yourself.  Elements of both the far right and far left (and some inbetween) have been feeding off of each other.  There's no sense in pointing the crooked finger out at others for what one has contributed to themselves.

Why can;t we agree that we need to -directly- address suicides and the drug war?  That will solve our problem because it -is- our problem.  Why not talk about enforcing our laws?  Whats all this left/right, guns/no guns shit going to do about that?

Nope sorry, wont work. That is only one factor. YES it is important. But it is still one factor.

The biggest thing that has to be busted up is big money in politics. The gun industry uses lobbyists just like big tobacco and big oil. 

The next thing that has to be stopped is the fear mongering of the NRA lobby.

All the aid in the world in decriminalizing drugs wont mean shit with our pay gap combined with the sell of fear between cops and society combined with the flooded market.

ALL those things have to be tackled at the same time. BUT don't stupidly think the gun makers are not part of the problem, they are.

The NRA uses the same bullshit demagoguery Drumpf is using and it is the same bullshit the 1% uses to sell "don't tax the rich or else you are a commie and love Cuba and Stalin".

You are NOT wrong, but no, the gun factories are bullies and just like the GOP they get otherwise reasonable people to vote against their own self interests and the safety of the public that puts profits over human lives.

Meh, this "ardent gunner" doesn't worry much about the second amendment.  I do worry, however, that legislation both proposed and passed in past do not and -did not- effect the problem they seek to address, that they would merely make me and those like me criminals by fiat.

The numbers are here, in this thread, Brian. That they do not justify your comments or the actions you think we need to take doesn't change them. You either accept the stats and make a case based upon reality, or peddle fiction of varying degrees as solutions to an equally fictional problem. You and the people you oppose are bound at the hip, on this one. Your call. It doesn't seem, to me, like using gun death or tragedy as a springboard to stump against the evils of Corporate Empire is taking gun death or tragedy very seriously.