(March 19, 2016 at 8:53 pm)Mathilda Wrote: Regarding the illegal immigrants, all of his supporters on here have completely ignored my point that building a wall is ineffective and the most costly measure for keeping out illegal immigrants. There's not just a cost to build it, but to maintain it and guard it as well. You could need guards stationed all along the wall all the time. They also ignore the point that it would be far cheaper and more effective to enforce the law and to stop companies like Drumpf's in hiring illegal immigrants in the first place.

That makes the wall a job creator.  So that's a good thing. It will bring new money into the border towns.

(March 19, 2016 at 10:23 pm)scoobysnack Wrote:

(March 19, 2016 at 10:11 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Whenever someone uses the word "paradigm", I know I'm hearing a line of horseshit.

Sounds about right from someone that is still living in a delusion. A paradigm shift basically is that you suddenly realize what you thought to be true, is not, based on new understanding, which doesn't fit your past understanding. An example would be you spitting on a homeless old man because you think he was just lazy and useless, only to realize later that he was just a man with down syndrome waiting outside of a store for his social worker buying him a lemonade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

I know what it is. I also know it's a buzzword used to "intellectualize" what is usually a vapid, or at the very least banal, point.

If I don't understand what you or anyone else says, I will ask, thanks.

(March 19, 2016 at 10:24 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 19, 2016 at 9:26 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Well then you must not support the $15 minimum wage push either, so that's good because it would equally hurt small businesses. The prices business charge for products are the most the market can bear while still making a profit to remain in business and remain competitive. I work for a fortune 500 company that manufacturers the vast majority of products  in China that American families buy. In fact they are now talking about creating robots and automation to cut costs further, and eliminate more Chinese labor, because it's getting too expensive. How can we compare with countries that have less human rights, and less environmental regulations, which keep labor costs at the bare minimum.

There is no reason Americans couldn't do a job that illegal immigrants can't do. All we need to do is get rid of the cheap illegal labor, which will force businesses to pay a livable wage, which will increase the spending ability of American workers, which will keep businesses in business, and employing people, and start the move upward. Problem is the elite would prefer to keep people poor, and instead of paying the citizens, move jobs offshore, or bring workers in. The same thing is happen in IT. WIPRO is one of the largest offshore India firms providing IT to major businesses, and not only do they do that, but they fire Americans and bring in people on work visas to work temporarily in country.

The general public is in a trance state, and starting to wake up.

No we don't get rid of immigrant labor. That is nuts. Do you know what would happen if if all that labor left? It would hurt our economy. You don't make people leave, you simply allow those here out of the shadows and force the business to pay EVERYONE a livable wage. There would also be more income tax paid. Right now all they pay is tax on what they buy. And that too would be lost by shipping people out.

Just to be clear, are you talking about illegal or legal immigration? Reason I ask is because the left uses immigration freely as if there is no difference. Also, legal immigration is regulated and taxed, while illegal immigration is not. Yes it would be a shock to the system if businesses suddenly lost cheap labor, yet we have jobless people that are getting welfare for numerous reasons. Some justified, and some lazy people that are abusing the system and taking tax dollars from the labor force. There is a lot of money flowing out of the country to families of immigrants. It's not all being used in local economies, or even the banking systems.

(March 19, 2016 at 10:28 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(March 19, 2016 at 8:53 pm)Mathilda Wrote: Regarding the illegal immigrants, all of his supporters on here have completely ignored my point that building a wall is ineffective and the most costly measure for keeping out illegal immigrants. There's not just a cost to build it, but to maintain it and guard it as well. You could need guards stationed all along the wall all the time. They also ignore the point that it would be far cheaper and more effective to enforce the law and to stop companies like Drumpf's in hiring illegal immigrants in the first place.

That makes the wall a job creator.  So that's a good thing. It will bring new money into the border towns.

I was thinking the same thing. First of all, the Mexican government would pay for it in exchange for better trade deals, and second, we already have border agents who support Trump, and acknowledge the border is basically swiss cheese, and that Obama has ordered the border to be more open, and that immigrants can't be arrested. The US is a joke, and the left is a dangerous cult of subversive idiots.

Plus we have the technology to set up surveillance along the border just like they do at military bases in the desert that alert them to human traffic. Not that hard if we actually wanted to do this.

Problem is most people still don't understand the SPP and North American Union agreements that are still being worked on behind the scenes to this day. Once the american people fully wake up to the screw job, just fucking wait.

(March 19, 2016 at 10:31 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(March 19, 2016 at 10:23 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Sounds about right from someone that is still living in a delusion. A paradigm shift basically is that you suddenly realize what you thought to be true, is not, based on new understanding, which doesn't fit your past understanding. An example would be you spitting on a homeless old man because you think he was just lazy and useless, only to realize later that he was just a man with down syndrome waiting outside of a store for his social worker buying him a lemonade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradigm_shift

I know what it is. I also know it's a buzzword used to "intellectualize" what is usually a vapid, or at the very least banal, point.

If I don't understand what you or anyone else says, I will ask, thanks.

Buzzword? Sounds to me like more leftist bullshit. Once you get out of controlled paradigm, you will start to understand the spell you have been dwelling in.

http://i.imgur.com/0GqF9rw.gifv

(March 19, 2016 at 11:03 pm)scoobysnack Wrote:

(March 19, 2016 at 10:31 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I know what it is. I also know it's a buzzword used to "intellectualize" what is usually a vapid, or at the very least banal, point.

If I don't understand what you or anyone else says, I will ask, thanks.

Buzzword? Sounds to me like more leftist bullshit. Once you get out of controlled paradigm, you will start to understand the spell you have been dwelling in.

http://i.imgur.com/0GqF9rw.gifv

Lol, you think I'm a leftist? That's the funniest thing I've been called in a while, Scrappy. Nothing like an inane label to make your point -- and I'm being generous using that last word to describe your posting right now.

Regarding the Mexican border wall, I did a number-crunching exercise on Trump's claim that Mexico will pay for it. I'm on my phone right now, but when I get home I'll copy and link it so that the good folks reading this thread can decide for themselves who has the facts on his side.

(March 19, 2016 at 11:17 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(March 19, 2016 at 11:03 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Buzzword? Sounds to me like more leftist bullshit. Once you get out of controlled paradigm, you will start to understand the spell you have been dwelling in.

http://i.imgur.com/0GqF9rw.gifv

Lol, you think I'm a leftist? That's the funniest thing I've been called in a while, Scrappy. Nothing like an inane label to make your point -- and I'm being generous using that last word to describe your posting right now.

Regarding the Mexican border wall, I did a number-crunching exercise on Trump's claim that Mexico will pay for it. I'm on my phone right now, but when I get home I'll copy and link it so that the good folks reading this thread can decide for themselves who has the facts on his side.

Well this is an interesting development indeed. I've always been called a right winger myself, even though I'm more libertarian, but in the US, you are either left or right, so they get us fighting. I don't even own a bible, yet still get called a bible thumper etc around here.

(March 19, 2016 at 8:26 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Right now, based on voter turnout, Trump should win Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Maine, Nevada, Virginia, and Ohio.  Those States have 92 votes and added to the Red States that Romney won Trump will end up with a minimum of 298 electoral votes and become the President.

Trump already won Florida and Nevada, and lost Ohio ... way to keep informed.

(March 19, 2016 at 11:49 pm)scoobysnack Wrote: Well this is an interesting development indeed. I've always been called a right winger myself, even though I'm more libertarian, but in the US, you are either left or right, so they get us fighting. I don't even own a bible, yet still get called a bible thumper etc around here.

I'm a registered Libertarian. In terms of political outlook, I'm a "neolibertarian" -- that is, I hearken to Jefferson's that government is best which governs least maxim, but I also recognize that the "least" requirement has changed with technology and population, as well as history.

No one got me fighting anyone, though. I speak my mind as I see fit, and of course that includes disparaging catchphrases and buzzwords. I think those two items are signposts for lazy thinking -- adopting the lingo of the times necessarily shortchanges nuanced though and self-plotted navigational courses.

Your mileage may vary.

(March 20, 2016 at 3:43 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(March 19, 2016 at 8:26 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Right now, based on voter turnout, Trump should win Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Maine, Nevada, Virginia, and Ohio.  Those States have 92 votes and added to the Red States that Romney won Trump will end up with a minimum of 298 electoral votes and become the President.

Trump already won Florida and Nevada, and lost Ohio ... way to keep informed.

Exactly.  Those were the primaries and caucuses.  The electoral votes are awarded after election day.  Since Trump and the Repubs had more voters chances are he will win those States if the Repubs show up.  Those States went Dem in the last election.