(April 6, 2016 at 3:27 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The machinery of the camps was operated by Christians in the vast majority.

Franz Stangl stands out. Commander of Sobibor and Treblinka. In a set of interviews with Gitta Sereny, after he was arrested, he spoke about his catholicism and his conscience. He said, he went to confession and the priest always gave him absolution.

But, as I repeatedly said, things are more complicated than the claim of Hitler having been this or that and his henchmen having been this or that.

Of course. I don't lay the Holocaust at the feet of Christians, but rather, at the feet of humans.

But it needs to be pointed out that Christian morality in no way stepped up to prevent and obvious, and enormous, evil.

(April 6, 2016 at 3:54 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Of course.  I don't lay the Holocaust at the feet of Christians, but rather, at the feet of humans.

But it needs to be pointed out that Christian morality in no way stepped up to prevent and obvious, and enormous, evil.

In my very catholic grandparents' (*1900 / 1902) kitchen, the "Führer" hung not far from the Cross, you can be sure of that. Not that they were fervent Nazis or even members of the party, but that was just how it was, a natural coexistence, in those years. You didn't mess with the usual authority figures, mucking up just wasn't a thing. They were thre same ones you had before under the emperor - the mayor who was in the party, the priest, and the teacher, who usually was also in the party (we are talking about a village of 500). I don't think the republic in between had much of a cultural impact in those rural parts.

(April 6, 2016 at 4:15 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't think the republic in between had much of a cultural impact in those rural parts.

Do you think, it has now? Well, yes, maybe with the arrival of the internet and the younger generation, but when growing up, the rural villages always were the most religious. With the priest being an authority figure and never missing out on mass in their sunday best.

There's still a very big cultural gap between city and rural areas. Not only here, in the West, but everywhere in the world.

(April 6, 2016 at 5:11 am)abaris Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 4:15 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't think the republic in between had much of a cultural impact in those rural parts.

Do you think, it has now?

Not everywhere, no. My home village is in a very touristy region and was home of a renowned health spa in the 19th century, and the resulting intense outside contact and influx of new inhabitants certainly made it a more liberal spot on average. Other places though where that's not the case, I don't want to know

(April 6, 2016 at 5:11 am)abaris Wrote: [...] but when growing up, the rural villages always were the most religious.

It's no different here in America. Unfair though it may be many times, the stereotype of bumpkin has some basis in reality.

Back in the 80s, the singer John Mellencamp had a big hit here with a song titled "Small Town", lauding the virtues of small-town life, which included the line "taught to fear Jesus in that same small town."

(April 6, 2016 at 11:09 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Back in the 80s, the singer John Mellencamp had a big hit here with a song titled "Small Town", lauding the virtues of small-town life, which included the line "taught to fear Jesus in that same small town."

I remember it, at least the lyrics. Can't recall the tune right now.

But it has it's advantages too. I'm living in a small town, know every shopkeeper, bus and cab driver. I couldn't imagine moving to the big city.

(April 6, 2016 at 11:15 am)abaris Wrote:

(April 6, 2016 at 11:09 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Back in the 80s, the singer John Mellencamp had a big hit here with a song titled "Small Town", lauding the virtues of small-town life, which included the line "taught to fear Jesus in that same small town."

I remember it, at least the lyrics. Can't recall the tune right now.

But it has it's advantages too. I'm living in a small town, know every shopkeeper, bus and cab driver. I couldn't imagine moving to the big city.

Oh, sure. I live in a small town about 30 miles outside Austin, TX, and while the religiosity and parochial ways of my neighbors are sometimes annoying, they are essentially good people. One of them came into my store once and handed me a hundred-dollar bill, saying, "I found this out in the parking lot. Whoever it belongs to is going to want it back."

The peace of rural living sits well with me after almost half-a-century living in cities ranging from 200,000 to seven million in population. I won't live in a city again unless I absolutely have to.

(April 5, 2016 at 11:19 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(December 21, 2015 at 5:52 pm)Gawdzilla Wrote: Doesn't matter if Hitler was a Christian or not. 97% of the adult (non-Jewish) German population identified with a Christian religion. The churches bought into fascism wholeheartedly and after the war the pews filled up like 1933 had never happened. 

Christians did the Holocaust.

 You're an idiot. Hitler wasn't a German, he was born Austrian and moved to Germany when he was 24. 39 of Hitler's known relatives were tested for DNA origins and there is a possibility he was Jewish. Hitler passed the law that he and Jesus were not Jewish because of a picture of a gravestone the British published that might have linked him with the Jews. Though later it was prove the two were not connected. Hitler was a paranoid nut that would do anything to prove he wasn't a Jew. Claiming to be a Christian doesn't make one a Christian any more than someone claiming to be a doctor. The Medical Association's have standards for doctors, just as God has a standard for one to be a Christian. Rest assured Hitler wasn't a Christian, he couldn't even pass for anything less than a monster.

GC

Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Never far from the lips of a Christian who's been confronted with Hitler's Christianity.


The difference between Christians and doctors is that there's a pretty standard set of hoops one must jump through to be considered a doctor, whereas no two Christians agree on what makes somebody a "True Christian." When you guys get an actual consensus on what makes a True Christian, please let everyone know so us outsiders can tell who's real and who isn't. Until then, a Christian is just somebody who believes in Jesus, and if somebody voluntarily says they believe in and worship Jesus, there's really no reason for me to doubt that.


Also, you do realize Austria is a Germanic country, right? Their official language is actually German. Besides, we call citizens who weren't born here Americans, don't we?

(April 9, 2016 at 3:07 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote:

(April 5, 2016 at 11:19 pm)Godschild Wrote:  You're an idiot. Hitler wasn't a German, he was born Austrian and moved to Germany when he was 24. 39 of Hitler's known relatives were tested for DNA origins and there is a possibility he was Jewish. Hitler passed the law that he and Jesus were not Jewish because of a picture of a gravestone the British published that might have linked him with the Jews. Though later it was prove the two were not connected. Hitler was a paranoid nut that would do anything to prove he wasn't a Jew. Claiming to be a Christian doesn't make one a Christian any more than someone claiming to be a doctor. The Medical Association's have standards for doctors, just as God has a standard for one to be a Christian. Rest assured Hitler wasn't a Christian, he couldn't even pass for anything less than a monster.

GC

Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Never far from the lips of a Christian who's been confronted with Hitler's Christianity.


The difference between Christians and doctors is that there's a pretty standard set of hoops one must jump through to be  considered a doctor, whereas no two Christians agree on what makes somebody a "True Christian." When you guys get an actual consensus on what makes a True Christian, please let everyone know so us outsiders can tell who's real and who isn't. Until then, a Christian is just somebody who believes in Jesus, and if somebody voluntarily says they believe in and worship Jesus, there's really no reason for me to doubt that.


Also, you do realize Austria is a Germanic country, right? Their official language is actually German.  Besides, we call citizens who weren't born here Americans, don't we?

 Well I guess America has expanded tremendously, we can claim all English speaking countries according to your lame idea. Also Austria has self rule, that means they are a separate country. Also we do not allow anyone that to be president of this country that wasn't born hear.

These words are directly from Jesus' Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me,you workers of lawlessness.'

If I have to explain to you what this means and how it counters your argument completely then we have nothing else to say or I don't anyhow, it doesn't take a very intelligent person to understand the truth of those verses.

GC