(April 15, 2016 at 8:56 pm)Losty Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 8:52 pm)paulpablo Wrote: You totally lost me now. When you say his business is required do you mean forced by law?  And what do you mean we aren't talking about him we're talking about his business.  If he runs the business then he makes the decisions, the business isn't a separate sentient being who can make decisions.

I feel like you are intentionally being dense.

The man himself isn't required to have a business. If he does have one there are laws that say a business cannot discriminate. It's not remotely the same as trying to force women to have sex with men they don't want to sleep with.

I don't believe you think it's the same either.

I'm not saying the two situations are entirely equal.  But I don't see it as totally dissimilar.

A man owns a business, he chooses who he wants to work for him.  If he makes a good choice he lives happily ever after.  If he makes a bad choice he loses business, becomes bankrupt.

A woman owns her body.  She decides who she breeds with.  If she chooses well she has good looking healthy babies and lives happily ever after.  A woman makes bad choices she no longer wants to be with the father of the child, she has ugly stupid babies.


You said you can't imagine what it would be like to be a trans person in a place where you're discriminated against and the law wouldn't protect you.

My point is that there are discriminatory acts going on that are just as bad that go on in nature all the time and the law can't interfere with the situation and actually goes against the person being discriminated against.

I don't know why your telling me a man isn't required to own a business.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think if the outcome could be dangerous, it should matter. There are 2 sides to everything, and both sides should be considered and options weighed.

I don't know, CL - from where I sit, the two sides are "let's trample a vulnerable minority's rights and dignity" vs. "let's not".

For me, that's a pretty easy choice without weighing.

(April 15, 2016 at 9:07 pm)Losty Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:04 pm)Jello Wrote: This whole stupid idea of having a 3rd bathroom annoys me.

By the logic applied to that about supposed "perverts" surely, we'd need a 4th bathroom, then, for gay/lesbian people? Because hey, if trans people are all perverts, surely the gay/lesbians would like to perv on people too!

(That was full of sarcasm, if it was unaware.)

See how stupid the logic sounds now, When directly applied to another group?

I kinda love the third restroom because it's generally just a single room with one toilet and you have to wait your turn so anyone can use it. I like this because my son is 6 but he looks 10 easily and I don't like to bring him into the women's restroom but I also don't want him going off by himself to the men's room.

I meant like the idea of having a third restroom for trans people specifically, unless i've been totally misreading posts in here xD 
As far as i know, the only "third" restroom that exists as a proper thing is toilets for disabled people, which exist for obvious reasons

(April 15, 2016 at 9:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I'll have to agree transsexuals should be able to decide what place they feel more comfortable going.

The solution is not to always make laws to protect you from the worse person, but to accommodate the well being of those most in need of it.

Besides men can wear a niqaab and do the same thing now. And despite the niqaab having no basis in Islam, I don't support forbidding it for what a real bad person can do with it.

Wow, mystic. I think I am actually going to kudos one of your posts! [emoji6]. I completely agree with you sir.

(April 15, 2016 at 9:09 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 8:56 pm)Losty Wrote: I feel like you are intentionally being dense.

The man himself isn't required to have a business. If he does have one there are laws that say a business cannot discriminate. It's not remotely the same as trying to force women to have sex with men they don't want to sleep with.

I don't believe you think it's the same either.

I'm not saying the two situations are entirely equal.  But I don't see it as totally dissimilar.

A man owns a business, he chooses who he wants to work for him.  If he makes a good choice he lives happily ever after.  If he makes a bad choice he loses business, becomes bankrupt.

A woman owns her body.  She decides who she breeds with.  If she chooses well she has good looking healthy babies and lives happily ever after.  A woman makes bad choices she no longer wants to be with the father of the child, she has ugly stupid babies.


You said you can't imagine what it would be like to be a trans person in a place where you're discriminated against and the law wouldn't protect you.

My point is that there are discriminatory acts going on that are just as bad that go on in nature all the time and the law can't interfere with the situation and actually goes against the person being discriminated against.

I don't know why your telling me a man isn't required to own a business.

I'm telling you because as an individual he's not being forced to do anything. When he makes his own personal choice to own a business they he must follow the laws that come with that. The ones he knew about before opening his business.

And yea...your analogy is still fucking ridiculous and obtuse.

(April 15, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Jello Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:07 pm)Losty Wrote: I kinda love the third restroom because it's generally just a single room with one toilet and you have to wait your turn so anyone can use it. I like this because my son is 6 but he looks 10 easily and I don't like to bring him into the women's restroom but I also don't want him going off by himself to the men's room.

I meant like the idea of having a third restroom for trans people specifically, unless i've been totally misreading posts in here xD 
As far as i know, the only "third" restroom that exists as a proper thing is toilets for disabled people, which exist for obvious reasons

Usually the third restroom is just a catch all.

(April 15, 2016 at 8:51 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 8:40 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: No one has yet demonstrated that dressing in drag in order to sneak into a bathroom and rape a woman is any "easier" than sneaking into a woman's bathroom via any other method in order to accomplish the same thing.  In fact, I would argue such an approach is more difficult and cumbersome than if the rapist just waited for the opportune moment sans full drag.  Thoughts?  

It's not about going into a bathroom to rape, it's about going in there to peep. Obviously it's easier to do this if the man is dressed like a woman to make people think he is trans than if he just walks in as is.

I argue that it's not. If a man waits for the right moment in the right place there is NO reason he needs to be in drag to accomplish his peeping goal. And as Losty said, even if these laws WERE in place, it in NO way prevents a peeping tom from dressing up in convincing drag to peep! It literally makes no difference no matter how you slice it.

(April 15, 2016 at 9:11 pm)Losty Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:09 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I'm not saying the two situations are entirely equal.  But I don't see it as totally dissimilar.

A man owns a business, he chooses who he wants to work for him.  If he makes a good choice he lives happily ever after.  If he makes a bad choice he loses business, becomes bankrupt.

A woman owns her body.  She decides who she breeds with.  If she chooses well she has good looking healthy babies and lives happily ever after.  A woman makes bad choices she no longer wants to be with the father of the child, she has ugly stupid babies.


You said you can't imagine what it would be like to be a trans person in a place where you're discriminated against and the law wouldn't protect you.

My point is that there are discriminatory acts going on that are just as bad that go on in nature all the time and the law can't interfere with the situation and actually goes against the person being discriminated against.

I don't know why your telling me a man isn't required to own a business.

I'm telling you because as an individual he's not being forced to do anything. When he makes his own personal choice to own a business they he must follow the laws that come with that. The ones he knew about before opening his business.

And yea...your analogy is still fucking ridiculous and obtuse.

Well you're not really making an argument.  You're just saying "He has to do it because the laws are there.  What you said is stupid".  That's not really an argument.

I'm not saying there isn't an argument to be said against what I'm saying but you're not making any sort of sensible argument.

(April 15, 2016 at 9:13 pm)Losty Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:10 pm)Jello Wrote: I meant like the idea of having a third restroom for trans people specifically, unless i've been totally misreading posts in here xD 
As far as i know, the only "third" restroom that exists as a proper thing is toilets for disabled people, which exist for obvious reasons

Usually the third restroom is just a catch all.

Oh, i forgot about them. Here in britain, those are actually pretty rare, usually only found when space is an issue.

Mostly because over here, we let people use whatever bathroom they want! Not difficult!

(April 15, 2016 at 9:14 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(April 15, 2016 at 9:11 pm)Losty Wrote: I'm telling you because as an individual he's not being forced to do anything. When he makes his own personal choice to own a business they he must follow the laws that come with that. The ones he knew about before opening his business.

And yea...your analogy is still fucking ridiculous and obtuse.

Well you're not really making an argument.  You're just saying "He has to do it because the laws are there.  What you said is stupid".  That's not really an argument.

I'm not saying there isn't an argument to be said against what I'm saying but you're not making any sort of sensible argument.

You're right. Your argument about how bakers being forced to make cakes for gays is the same as women being forced to fuck any man who wants her was so much more sensible