Quote:And you call that trolling? Oh come off it. We've seen real trolls. This? This is someone with a different opinion than you. A different opinion than me too. He's still not trolling,

(April 7, 2011 at 6:05 am)Holubice Wrote:

(April 6, 2011 at 5:07 pm)Emporion Wrote: *woke up from my N.D.E*
Me: Hey doc, you woke me up from my dream!
Doctor: You would have died if I didn't stop the machine.
Me: You're right, doc. Thank you for the wonderful N.D.E while it lasted.
Doctor: You're welcome.

How does this prove God?

Nothing will prove God to the heart of a man who wish God doesn't exist because he has nothing to gain from his existence. Could you be comfortable for you to realize Somebody has noted anything you have done in your life (I mean anything)? Could be comfortable for you to realized that you had to give all your money to poor? (I mean all). This is the reason why you are so sarcastic: you hope He doesn't exist.

(April 7, 2011 at 6:05 am)Holubice Wrote:

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(April 6, 2011 at 5:18 pm)SpatiumTempusque Wrote: Sei Italiano! Ti raccomando... stai attento qui perche ci sono queli che ti fanno male (ai tuoi sentimenti)!

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For those ones (many) which don't speak my language: you wrote "There are here some persons which could hurt your sentiment".
Don't worry. I type also with your colleagues Italian Atheist. They created an 'Instruction map for Missionaries". It's funny. I have translated with Google Translator the content and I paste it here in a hidden text (have fun!):

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"Dear missionary


Welcome to the heart of free spirits in the house! You happened between us and wanted to bring glad tidings of the faith. To thank you in advance for your spirit of sacrifice, we have summarized some advice in order to relieve the monotony of just a proclamation of faith in the operational area AI.

If you're reading this, presumably you arrived here via another thread, in case you have not yet started your missionary work and have clicked on this thread of your own free will, of course, all the better.

You can well imagine that it is not the first missionary who accepts the challenge of bringing the light of faith to the inhabitants of the godless home of free spirits, and if you do not want to repeat the mistakes of your predecessors, you should take into account the recommendations outlined here. If you fail at first, not the end of the world, if necessary, remind you of this text.

1. Familiar with the arguments that criticize religions! A rough overview you can find it eg. Dittmar Online here, or Ebon Musings by Dawkins' book "The God Delusion." If necessary, ask for information on non-believers on the other websites and books.

2. Forget what you read on websites apologetic! The issues and guides set out herein to convert atheists are not worth anything. But above all, do not include links to similar websites by adding "Well, now refuted this" will be interpreted as laziness argument. And if you spam the forum with copincolla of entire web pages, prepared to receive responses unfriendly.

3. Do not threaten us with hell! Even if you mean just as a warning, I felt as a threat. And since we do not believe in hell, we'll just laugh at it wearily. It also reinforces our impression that your religion has nothing to offer but fear.

4. The arguments are over contemplative sentences! This is a forum for discussions, not sermons. Assertions are not arguments, such an argument is always a reason. The contents of the faith are not reasons, effective reasoning is irrefutable objective data on which is in agreement with your partner also. So look for common ground with your partners before you build upon the discussion. Do not build your arguments on the premise that God exists, because they want to prove the existence slip into a closed circle.

5. Familiar with the errors argumentative Avoid them! Among others, occur repeatedly, the following errors:

• Argumentum ad verecundiam (appeal to authority): Do not appeal to authority! Just because some scientist shares your faith, does not mean that this is true.
• Argumentum ad personam (personal attack): Do not personally attack the other person! Concentrated rather to weaken his arguments.
• Argumentum ad ignorantiam (appeal to ignorance): Just because a certain phenomenon was not found a natural explanation, it does not follow that God is behind us in doing so also degrade your God to the level of stop-gap, which must be withdrawn increasingly to the extent that science progresses.
• The true Scottish (Antony Flew, the statement of principle): Be careful not to make a difference between true and false believers! Just because someone hurts, does not mean she can not share your faith. We will acknowledge your faith to see all rosy.
• The straw man: the first to refute an argument, you must ensure that your partner actually support him. You do not need anything to refute an argument that still does not agree with anyone.
• Argumentum ad populum (appeal to the mass): The amount of the faithful does not reinforce the authenticity of faith.
• Lowering the burden of proof: who makes a statement, the show has. The burden of proof is borne by the believer, not the skeptic, not expected to refute your statements, if you do the same effort to substantiate.
• Quotes spun off from their context: when you cite someone, pay attention to the context in which the quotation is made. It is likely that the meaning is different from what you mean.
• Non sequitur (wrong conclusions): be careful that your conclusions are the logical consequence of your premises.
You can find more information HERE Wikipedia.

6. Look at the mistakes made by other missionaries Avoid them! You are not the first one who wants to convert. Examine why your predecessors have failed, eg. HERE

7. Avoid stereotypes and prejudices! Among others, these:

• atheists have no morals, sense of life, hope ...
• atheists are nihilists
• atheists have no conscience
• fellow atheists are Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot
• atheists have been disappointed by God through a traumatic experience
• Even atheism is a faith, no religion is without


8. Let's wager Pascal out of the game! Pascal's wager is a false conundrum and also a subtle threat of hell. We have already discussed quite often, use the search function!

9. Beware the Münchhausen-trilemma! Do not groped to convince non-believers with dogma and circular reasoning set arbitrarily.

10. There is atheism! There is no atheist bible, church, atheist, and no atheist Pope, who speaks for all non-believers, among whom there are totally different opinions on various topics. Watch therefore generalizations and the fact that atheists do not believe in a god does not make them a unified group. Consider that the same followers of a religion are not always all of the same opinion, even within the current belief systems are different and groupings, to say nothing of individual sects or divisions. Not having a common basis as the Bible or the Koran various atheists have, inevitably, different ideas.

11. We tell stories of conversions! Such reports move the discussion from the objective plane to the emotional, with the result that your partner receive the impression of being cheated. A proper discussion can take place only on the objective level, especially not us telling stories of conversion on his deathbed, the vast majority of which are plus false. If any of these stories contains arguments in favor of your faith, you can also tell us these arguments alone, also remembers that we have many more stories of people who have lost faith, and that even know these people. Many of them write here.

12. Do not ignore any argument, no matter what happens! Let it be clear that in this case will be attached to your point of view in that regard, however, this should not lead you to ignore arguments or questions, their relevance continue to apply irrespective quietly.
In addition you should also take into account questions that you seem grotesque, such as why do not you think at:
Pink Unicorn
or to:
Pastafarianesimo
These questions are meant seriously!

13. Expose your arguments in a clear and articulate! Otherwise it can happen to you attribute the contents of faith that you represent. It is not bad intentions, it may be the contents of faith shared by most of those who claim to have your own faith. It may also be that it is simply a logical consequence of what truly believe and have already told you. (It is conceivable even a mixture of both things)

14. Use the search function! It is possible that your arguments have already been discussed here to the vomiting. If you can not introduce new ideas in old threads, you better forget it.

15. Take your time! Read a little in the first forum. Think exactly what you're about to enter, can only be beneficial to the quality of your work. "

A couple of examples with discussions containing some of the arguments listed above:

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(April 7, 2011 at 8:28 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:And you call that trolling? Oh come off it. We've seen real trolls. This? This is someone with a different opinion than you. A different opinion than me too. He's still not trolling,

I've seen a lot of trolls too. This guy could most certainly be troll and/ or a poe. I really don't know.

OR,he may be mentally unwell

OR just another apologist fesso.

OR,as Sigmund Freud did NOT say "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" IE he may really be as arrogant, ignorant, and bloody minded as his posts suggest. Probably not clinically stupid,although perhaps not brightest bulb in the theatre.

Regardless ,he's annoying and preachy.

Intolerant? ME? You bet your arse. I don't suffer fools ,and I owe this one exactly nothing. He's been treated far more tolerantly here than an atheist with a similar attitude would be on any Christian forum.

PS Yeah; I understand the meaning of "fesso",and some of its nuances..

(April 7, 2011 at 6:35 am)Zen Badger Wrote: Holodeck, you are on a fast road to nowhere with this shit, people here are far too intelligent and sceptical to take your rubbish seriously.
I would suggest you find a christian forum, there they will be much more likely to take you seriously. But only because they are a bunch of credulous imbeciles.

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(April 7, 2011 at 7:35 am)ib.me.ub Wrote: @Holubice: Umm, No. If it was true, it wouldn't be such bad a thing anyway. The World needs a good shake up.

Holubice Wrote:The shake up I'm pretty sure is coming is so strong that barely few humans could survive it. Will you welcome a event like that? Do you know that Jesus has foreseen a event like that? And He said the beginning of the end will be announced by several strong quakes, revolution and stars dropping? If the events much more will complicate in the very near future, will you keep yourself calm and optimist?

(April 7, 2011 at 7:35 am)Aerzia Saerules Arktuos Wrote: ... And you call that trolling? Oh come off it. We've seen real trolls. This? This is someone with a different opinion than you. A different opinion than me too. He's still not trolling, Now preaching... it might be a tad of that. It reads to me more as advice giving and he seems genuinely concerned about us

Holubice Wrote:I was more Atheist than you before that experience.

Quote:I'm pretty sure all those terrible events will come true. But I'm not sure. But I'm sure God exists and, above all, I'm sure you are in a great danger.