https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FWgslugtDow

(May 10, 2016 at 1:40 am)pool the great Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 1:36 am)The_Empress Wrote: But "feminism" doesn't do that. Only certain feminists do.

Have you heard about the ' no true Scotsman' fallacy?

I have. Here, read up, and be a little bit more apprehensive next time you want to point out a fallacy, lest I painstakingly explain to you why you missed the mark. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/more-gay-...tion=india

Quote:So why are some gay guys so late to join the movement?

Quote:Banks wrote, “Do gay men get a special pass to say misogynist things simply because they like dick?”

Quote:So many of us are only familiar with the idea of male privilege being the province of straight men that we discount how gay men are able to exert dominance and control over women. — Rohin Guha

Quote:As Patrick Studrick of the Guardian wrote in November 2014, “There is a misogyny among gay men — but our sexist world is the problem.” Strudrick claims that “misogyny is as unavoidable as carbon dioxide,” and that gay men must do more to challenge it.

Quote:Rohin Guha wrote an article for Jezebel detailing the “dirty secrets of gay male subculture” — misogyny being one of them.

Quote:examples of how gay men use their sexuality and their cis-ness as an excuse to be misogynistic.

Quote:It means gay men have a duty to feminism. Gay men oppressed by patriarchal systems should be fighting alongside the rest of us to break them all down. — Teresa Baron

Quote:But, Baron argues, “That doesn’t mean feminism has a duty to gay men. It means gay men have a duty to feminism. Gay men oppressed by patriarchal systems should be fighting alongside the rest of us to break them all down.”

Quote:Gay men need to stop perpetuating misogyny and ally themselves with the feminist movement. And the first step toward becoming a true ally is listening to women speak about the issues that are important to them, whether it’s wage equality, reproductive rights, access to birth control or anything else. We can start there.

Buckle up, they're coming after you next.

(May 10, 2016 at 1:40 am)pool the great Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 1:36 am)The_Empress Wrote: But "feminism" doesn't do that. Only certain feminists do.

Have you heard about the ' no true Scotsman' fallacy?

Yes, and that was definitely not an example.

I didn't say those feminists "weren't true feminists", now did I? I have no idea if they are or not; it's not for me to judge. I'm simply pointing out that some feminists are more extreme than others, and they take it to a point that makes people uncomfortable. Pool, you're more like a puddle.

*Loves me some Empress, hugs*

Holy fuck, I just kudos'd EP.

(May 10, 2016 at 1:58 am)The_Empress Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 1:40 am)pool the great Wrote: Have you heard about the ' no true Scotsman' fallacy?

Yes, and that was definitely not an example.

I didn't say those feminists "weren't true feminists", now did I? I have no idea if they are or not; it's not for me to judge. I'm simply pointing out that some feminists are more extreme than others, and they take it to a point that makes people uncomfortable. Pool, you're more like a puddle.

You could've said certain feminists aren't true feminists if you also pointed out a specific objective rule for why that is and you wouldn't be committing a NTS fallacy. It only works if you're excluding certain members of a group with no reason.

(May 10, 2016 at 2:03 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 1:58 am)The_Empress Wrote: Yes, and that was definitely not an example.

I didn't say those feminists "weren't true feminists", now did I? I have no idea if they are or not; it's not for me to judge. I'm simply pointing out that some feminists are more extreme than others, and they take it to a point that makes people uncomfortable. Pool, you're more like a puddle.

You could've said certain feminists aren't true feminists if you also pointed out a specific objective rule for why that is and you wouldn't be committing a NTS fallacy. It only works if you're excluding certain members of a group with no reason.

Maybe, maybe not, but it's not really worth it in a conversation with someone as shallow as pool.

(May 10, 2016 at 2:00 am)The_Empress Wrote: Holy fuck, I just kudos'd EP.

And I kudos'd you back. It's nice, right? I almost feel fuzzy towards you now.

(May 10, 2016 at 2:06 am)The_Empress Wrote:

(May 10, 2016 at 2:03 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: You could've said certain feminists aren't true feminists if you also pointed out a specific objective rule for why that is and you wouldn't be committing a NTS fallacy. It only works if you're excluding certain members of a group with no reason.

Maybe, maybe not, but it's not really worth it in a conversation with someone as shallow as pool.

If the person who pointed out that no true Scotsman would do a certain thing then explained why that is by pointing out that the counterexample someone gave to him was a false one, since that particular Scotsman wasn't really a Scotsman by nationality, but an Italian, how would that be fallacious? It's the same with feminism, if you can reasonably argue why someone doesn't fit the description of a feminist you're in the clear.

I find that people tend to fear ridicule so much they avoid certain common pitfalls when there's no need to do so.