(June 2, 2016 at 10:21 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(June 2, 2016 at 9:44 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: The animal should not even be there to begin with.

I do not understand the black/white thinking. The parent made a mistake, I don't think that makes her negligent. Again, how many good parents have lost their child in a grocery store or a mall?

I agree, it doesn't make her a bad parent, but it does, or should imo, make her at least partly responsible.

If you are a great parent, and you are outside while a neighbor is preparing to paint his garage, and your 3 year old manages to grab the paintbrush in the bucket and slaps it on the guys Mercedes while your attention is momentarily diverted, guess who is financiallying responsible for the damage?

Yes, things happen. AND truly good people admit their mistakes and do what they can to make reparations. If a child caused a pet to die on accident, there are still financial penelties. Shouldn't this have something similar?

(June 2, 2016 at 10:21 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(June 2, 2016 at 9:44 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: The animal should not even be there to begin with.

That is a moot point. The animals are there. A lot of them are born in captivity and wouldn't survive in the wild. Zoos do a lot through research and habitat restoration/preservation that there is a sort of utilitarian use for these animals. Also, getting the public a view of these extraordinary animals is a wonderful social force for minimizing the amount of big game hunters and maximizing the awareness of habitat loss/endangered species is important. Specifically the Gorilla exhibit at this zoo is doing crucial breeding research/programs for this critically endangered species.

There is a discussion to be had about zoos and the positives and negatives that they present. But not knowing that animal's history, it is very likely that Harambe had never seen a wild jungle and therefore wouldn't survive if he wasn't in a zoo.

I do not understand the black/white thinking. The parent made a mistake, I don't think that makes her negligent. Again, how many good parents have lost their child in a grocery store or a mall? That isn't a TV trope for no reason. I lost my then 3 year old nephew in my own house. Fucker went out the doggie door after Tanner. I was making him dinner, and didn't get alarmed at the sound of the dog door flapping, because I have a dog that uses it at his leisure. I don't think I was negligent. Kids get a bug up their butt and fucking disappear quick.

The mom could have done better, just as I could have. The zoo had an enclosure that was good enough for a long time. If you don't have any issues, why would you spend tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars updating an enclosure that hasn't shown itself to be faulty? My understanding is that it was an aluminum fence with bars that were 3-4" apart, then a hedge, then a 12 foot fall to a water moat. Hindsight is 20/20, but before this incident, I would bet that no one here would have said that system represented a danger and/or needed to be overhauled at taxpayer expense.

The gorilla wasn't an immediate threat to the kid. The zoo personnel could have safely extracted the kid from the enclosure without any injury to the gorilla or to the kid or to themselves. If the kid had been in with chimps chances are the chimps would have quickly killed him because chimps are naturally more vicious than gorillas. They will attack and kill very quickly.

(June 2, 2016 at 9:14 pm)lanapoland1973 Wrote: Because parents need to watch their children better. The optimal word is "their" children. It was not the zoos responsibility, the zoo is not a armory or babysitter. That's the parents responsibility. Alot of parents want title but don't want to actually be a parent. To many parents put their responsibility of on other people, and hold others responsible. Parents need to recognize which responsibilities are theirs and theirs alone

NaNa

Any property owner has a responsibility to take sufficient safeguards for visitors. If a toddler can penetrate those safeguards, it seems to me ipso facto that those safeguards are insufficient.

I don't and won't absolve the mother of her responsibility to look after her own -- you're right that they should -- but there is, rightfully, an expectation that a public place has sufficient precautions in place.

I climb aboard an airplane, I have a reasonable expectation that it doesn't have metal fatigue in the left wing spar. I buy a new car, I have a reasonable expectation that it doesn't have defective brakes.

I go to a zoo (a place which should be expecting toddlers amongst its visitors), I should expect that the perimeters are toddler-proof.

(June 2, 2016 at 10:55 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The gorilla wasn't an immediate threat to the kid. The zoo personnel could have safely extracted the kid from the enclosure without any injury to the gorilla or to the kid or to themselves. If the kid had been in with chimps chances are the chimps would have quickly killed him because chimps are naturally more vicious than gorillas. They will attack and kill very quickly.

Well, we all know your expertise garnered from your mom's basement as a result of watching a grainy YouTube video should be trusted over the animal experts and DART team on site. I don't know why we didn't ask you first.

(June 2, 2016 at 10:55 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The gorilla wasn't an immediate threat to the kid.  The zoo personnel could have safely extracted the kid from the enclosure without any injury to the gorilla or to the kid or to themselves.  If the kid had been in with chimps chances are the chimps would have quickly killed him because chimps are naturally more vicious than gorillas.  They will attack and kill very quickly.

Woah

It's super awesome that you know a way to get a baby from a gorilla while guaranteeing that no one is harmed. It's a damn shame you weren't there to show them how it's done.


Ninjad by MCB

I'm starting to like Wyrd. Some entertaining posts for sure, haha.

(June 2, 2016 at 10:47 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(June 2, 2016 at 10:21 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: I do not understand the black/white thinking. The parent made a mistake, I don't think that makes her negligent. Again, how many good parents have lost their child in a grocery store or a mall?

I agree, it doesn't make her a bad parent, but it does, or should imo, make her at least partly responsible.

If you are a great parent, and you are outside while a neighbor is preparing to paint his garage, and your 3 year old manages to grab the paintbrush in the bucket and slaps it on the guys Mercedes while your attention is momentarily diverted, guess who is financiallying responsible for the damage?

Yes, things happen. AND truly good people admit their mistakes and do what they can to make reparations. If a child caused a pet to die on accident, there are still financial penelties. Shouldn't this have something similar?

What is she financially responsible for? I get it that you should pay a couple of hundred or grand for a new paint job or some sort of reparations for the loss of life of a pet.

Should she buy the zoo a new gorilla? I don't think the answer here is that she should have her life ruined by being on the hook for the millions of dollars it would cost to buy a new gorilla for the zoo. I'm sure it's expensive.

The zoo killed their own animal, remember.

(June 2, 2016 at 11:03 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(June 2, 2016 at 10:55 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: The gorilla wasn't an immediate threat to the kid.  The zoo personnel could have safely extracted the kid from the enclosure without any injury to the gorilla or to the kid or to themselves.  If the kid had been in with chimps chances are the chimps would have quickly killed him because chimps are naturally more vicious than gorillas.  They will attack and kill very quickly.

Well, we all know your expertise garnered from your mom's basement as a result of watching a grainy YouTube video should be trusted over the animal experts and DART team on site. I don't know why we didn't ask you first.

If all of the geniuses such as yourself who post on this forum got off their lazy butts they could solve all of the world's problems in 5 minutes.  While they are generally lazy they are very ambitious and energetic when it comes to making personal attacks.

Lol.

Troll: Says ignorant shit everywhere on the forums.
Rest of forums: You're ignorant, asshole.
Troll: Waaaaaah! You guys just want to insult me!

You're good at it, I'll admit.