(July 3, 2016 at 6:24 pm)Iroscato Wrote: And he's on my ignore list, where he shall stay forever.

Ahhh, it's like peeling off a layer of shit from my eyeballs.

I can't do this any longer!

(July 3, 2016 at 6:46 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 6:24 pm)Iroscato Wrote: And he's on my ignore list, where he shall stay forever.

Ahhh, it's like peeling off a layer of shit from my eyeballs.

I can't do this any longer!

Haha!  

(July 3, 2016 at 6:08 pm)abaris Wrote: If you have nothing else going in your favor than neonazi websites and youtube channels, I guess you have nothing in your favor at all.

Well, you're batting 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

You have no facts but at least make up some lies about your hero so that we can have a discussion.

(July 3, 2016 at 4:17 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 4:05 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: Yeah, im sorry on behalf of the forum that we have one here.

Out of the billions of topics the one that some people go ape shit crazy defending is the one about how the Jews suffered during WWII.  They don't give a rat's ass about any of the other genocides that were a lot worse but they will fight to the death selling the propaganda about how bad the Jews had it.  Since they have no real proof they go all out and attack whoever questions their favorite fairy tale of all time.  No one is denying that some Jews were killed in WWII.  But so was everyone else.  The difference is that the Zionist propaganda is based upon the Jews being special victims.  That's why there are dozens of "holocaust museums" scattered all over America and the world.  It's amazing that they don't outnumber the churches.  

Now compare this to all of the other issues.  People routinely call the sitting President, regardless of his party, a lying piece of shit and all kinds of other nasty terms.  Well, they might be and sometimes they are.  But no one really gets upset over it.  But everyone on the planet is expected to believe any con man or con woman who claims to have been a "holocaust victim".  The record shows that such people lie far more than Hillary, who lies 99.999% of the time.  But just like the Hillary supporters who love her even though they know she's lying, the "holocaust" crowd will get out the torches and pitchforks to defend their favorite liars.  They won't even let the issue be discussed.  They instantly start foaming at the mouth like rabid dogs.  

Remember what the fairy tale says in Zephaniah chapter 1.  The God character says that he's going to kill every single living thing in Jerusalem (Israel).  If you ever see that happen then you can whine about a real holocaust instead of an imaginary one.  

Now, is someone going to produced a Photoshop image of Elie's famous tattoo on his wrinkled arm?  He never had one before.    And it was hilarious how Bernie Madoff stole the liar's money.

Wow. You're one of those spittle-flecked white supremacists, aren't you? Shame on you.

(July 3, 2016 at 6:21 am)Iroscato Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 2:10 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Since Elie has bitten the dust maybe someone will Photoshop that tattoo number that he was so proud of on his wrinkled arm.

I would say that I'd love for you to meet with a Holocaust survivor, look them in the eye, and continue to spout your poison - but I wouldn't inflict your presence on someone who has already seen the worst that humanity has to offer.
You're a small, sad little man, and on some level I honestly pity you. Either you've had some horrific experiencs with Jews that soured you against them, or you're too foolishly naïve to accept the reality of one of the most (if not THE most) well-documented events in history.
There, I've already wasted more energy than I should have on you by writing that. Feel dirty.

I remember watching a movie called "The Believer," it's about Ryan Gosling playing a Jew who became a Neo-Nazi, and, after a skirmish at a Jewish deli gets sentenced to sensitivity training with Holocaust Survivors. Surprisingly, when one of his flunkies claims only 200,000 died in the camps, he actually not only calls him out, but points out the major logical problem with Nazis denying the Holocaust: "if Hitler didn't kill six million, why is he your hero?... Concentration camps all over Europe, and he only gets rid of a measly two hundred thousand... He's a putz."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxaxbrAa9oc

You know, the sad thing is they might actually be more accepted if they just flat-out admitted that they follow the biggest mass murderer in history and just wish he had a chance to finish the job. And, with Rick Tyler's "Make America White Again" campaign, they might be alarmingly popular. They'd be considered monsters, but at least they're not denying an event that has more documentation than the entire history of the Roman Empire, and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of first-hand testimonies by people who lived through it, from victims, liberators, shelterers, and perpetrators alike, and nobody in the intervening seventy years saying 'Whoops, actually the whole thing was a lie; not just my part, but everything else, the Allied forces and Jews somehow managed to bribe millions of people into saying this actually happened, except it didn't.'

(July 3, 2016 at 8:47 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 6:21 am)Iroscato Wrote: I would say that I'd love for you to meet with a Holocaust survivor, look them in the eye, and continue to spout your poison - but I wouldn't inflict your presence on someone who has already seen the worst that humanity has to offer.
You're a small, sad little man, and on some level I honestly pity you. Either you've had some horrific experiencs with Jews that soured you against them, or you're too foolishly naïve to accept the reality of one of the most (if not THE most) well-documented events in history.
There, I've already wasted more energy than I should have on you by writing that. Feel dirty.

I remember watching a movie called "The Believer," it's about Ryan Gosling playing a Jew who became a Neo-Nazi, and, after a skirmish at a Jewish deli gets sentenced to sensitivity training with Holocaust Survivors. Surprisingly, when one of his flunkies claims only 200,000 died in the camps, he actually not only calls him out, but points out the major logical problem with Nazis denying the Holocaust: "if Hitler didn't kill six million, why is he your hero?... Concentration camps all over Europe, and he only gets rid of a measly two hundred thousand... He's a putz."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxaxbrAa9oc

You know, the sad thing is they might actually be more accepted if they just flat-out admitted that they follow the biggest mass murderer in history and just wish he had a chance to finish the job. And, with Rick Tyler's "Make America White Again" campaign, they might be alarmingly popular. They'd be considered monsters, but at least they're not denying an event that has more documentation than the entire history of the Roman Empire, and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of first-hand testimonies by people who lived through it, from victims, liberators, shelterers, and perpetrators alike, and nobody in the intervening seventy years saying 'Whoops, actually the whole thing was a lie; not just my part, but everything else, the Allied forces and Jews somehow managed to bribe millions of people into saying this actually happened, except it didn't.'

+1
There are also photographs of Eli Wiesel in his concentration camp as it was being liberated. Not to mention scores of other photos and video of corpses stacked upon corpses.
Our token white supremacist here claims no one ever says anything about other genocides, yet Eli Wiesel himself spoke out about atrocities in the former Yugoslavia in the 90s and about Darfur.
So you know what, WyrdofGawd white supremacist? Go pound sand. Nobody here wants to hear your rants about the Jews.

(July 3, 2016 at 8:47 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 6:21 am)Iroscato Wrote: I would say that I'd love for you to meet with a Holocaust survivor, look them in the eye, and continue to spout your poison - but I wouldn't inflict your presence on someone who has already seen the worst that humanity has to offer.
You're a small, sad little man, and on some level I honestly pity you. Either you've had some horrific experiencs with Jews that soured you against them, or you're too foolishly naïve to accept the reality of one of the most (if not THE most) well-documented events in history.
There, I've already wasted more energy than I should have on you by writing that. Feel dirty.

I remember watching a movie called "The Believer," it's about Ryan Gosling playing a Jew who became a Neo-Nazi, and, after a skirmish at a Jewish deli gets sentenced to sensitivity training with Holocaust Survivors. Surprisingly, when one of his flunkies claims only 200,000 died in the camps, he actually not only calls him out, but points out the major logical problem with Nazis denying the Holocaust: "if Hitler didn't kill six million, why is he your hero?... Concentration camps all over Europe, and he only gets rid of a measly two hundred thousand... He's a putz."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxaxbrAa9oc

You know, the sad thing is they might actually be more accepted if they just flat-out admitted that they follow the biggest mass murderer in history and just wish he had a chance to finish the job. And, with Rick Tyler's "Make America White Again" campaign, they might be alarmingly popular. They'd be considered monsters, but at least they're not denying an event that has more documentation than the entire history of the Roman Empire, and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of first-hand testimonies by people who lived through it, from victims, liberators, shelterers, and perpetrators alike, and nobody in the intervening seventy years saying 'Whoops, actually the whole thing was a lie; not just my part, but everything else, the Allied forces and Jews somehow managed to bribe millions of people into saying this actually happened, except it didn't.'

The great thing about propaganda is that it convinces people of shit that isn't true. For instance, American propaganda says that the Revolutionary War was fought because the colonists were being taxed without representation and a couple of other BS reasons.  In reality it was fought because the slave owners like Washington & Jefferson wanted to keep their slaves and they were fearful that the English would abolish slavery in the colonies.  So they united with the Yankees, who did have some economic issues, and sold the idea that they were fighting for freedom against the mean English.  In reality they were fighting for the right to keep people in lifelong racial slavery.  They were able to convince people with their flowery language.

It was in the Allies interest to completely discredit the Nazi philosophy.  The idea that the Nazis had tried to exterminate all of the Jews was perfect for that.  Now, in reality, the Nazis were some mean bastards and they did in fact kill a lot of Jews.  But remember, before the war the Zionists had waged economic war against the German nation in an effort to cripple the national economy.  And before that, in WWI, the Zionists had actively encouraged other nations to attack Germany and Russia.  They succeeded in installing a commie regime in Russia and tried their best to do so in Germany.  They were following Theodore Herlz's blueprint in the Zionist State.  https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso...erzl2.html  You can read his book at that link.  You will see that Herlz's plan was to create a durable nemesis so that the German Jews would be forced to move to Palestine and steal it from the Palestinians.  He wanted the poor German Jews to go first and do all of the heavy work.  Later the rich Jews would move in and take over.  

If you are interested in history you can read it in the New York Times archives, which has actual daily stories about the events.

Now that's a little background that you can explore if you are so inclined, which I doubt, but stop bitching about my interpretation of the material when you haven't even looked at it.

In the meantime maybe you can find a photo, actual or fake, and post it of Elie's famous tattoo on his wrinkled left arm.  The evidence indicates that he didn't have such a tattoo.  So make one up and we will discuss it.

(July 3, 2016 at 6:06 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(July 3, 2016 at 5:42 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'll take "poisoning the well" for $500, Alex.

Woggie, how many fallacies are you going to try and cram into one thread?

The question is: did Elie spend years telling lies about his background to enrich himself (was he a fraud)?  Some of the evidence suggests that he was indeed a fraud.

I can find "some evidence" for a lot of stuff ... you know, like the Holocaust. Odd how your standards of evidence change depending on your own view of the facts in question.

(July 3, 2016 at 9:23 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: It was in the Allies interest to completely discredit the Nazi philosophy.  The idea that the Nazis had tried to exterminate all of the Jews was perfect for that.  Now, in reality, the Nazis were some mean bastards and they did in fact kill a lot of Jews.  But remember, before the war the Zionists had waged economic war against the German nation in an effort to cripple the national economy.  And before that, in WWI, the Zionists had actively encouraged other nations to attack Germany and Russia.  They succeeded in installing a commie regime in Russia and tried their best to do so in Germany.  They were following Theodore Herlz's blueprint in the Zionist State.  https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso...erzl2.html  You can read his book at that link.  You will see that Herlz's plan was to create a durable nemesis so that the German Jews would be forced to move to Palestine and steal it from the Palestinians.  He wanted the poor German Jews to go first and do all of the heavy work.  Later the rich Jews would move in and take over. 

You know what, for the sake of this argument, let's ignore the physical and photographic evidence, and the testimonies of tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people who lived through it, whether survivors, liberators, or even perpetrators. Let's also say that the Allies had the  means, motive, and opportunity to fabricate these massive crimes against humanity. How likely is it that they could have sustained it for over seventy years with virtually nobody in on it defecting?

It's a well-known fact in social psychology that a conspiracy is only secure enough as its weakest link. The more links there are, the more likely it is that one of them's going to crack eventually. How many people can sustain a conspiracy for any amount of time?

It should be noted that for the Allied conspiracy model of the Holocaust to work, it would require the cooperation of at least:

• All the people who would claim to be survivors, a number estimated to be (in 1945) around 3.14 million people. And, of course, it's clear that they would have been in on it.
  
• The members of the allied powers, American, British, and Soviet, and others, willing to create and build up the lie.
  
• Likely, the millions of survivors who would have to fake their own deaths (a very tricky thing to do for a single person, let alone several millions) to fulfill the "Six Million" figure (technically eleven million, if one counts the Gentiles). [Note: many of this number did die of causes other than direct Nazi cruelty, due to things like Typhus. It should be noted, however, that this cannot sufficient to explain all the deaths; in the Civil War, Andersonville prison had generally many of the same problems as Auschwitz, everything except for mass killings, with the added problems of living in a time before germ theory had caught on and in a place where, due to Lincoln's embargo, supplies were extremely low. The total death rate there: 25%.] This stage would have to involve 4.5 million people at least.
  
• The Germans who actually admitted to taking part in the atrocities.
  

The number of conspirators would have to be in the millions for this plan to work, possibly the tens of millions.

How big can a conspiracy be before it collapses under its own weight? A recent peer-reviewed paper, taking as its models the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, the PRISM NSA affair, and the FBI forensics coverup, actually proposed a mathemetical model for how many conspirators would have to take for a conspiracy to likely be uncovered. The author, David Robert Grimes, even included a chart mapping the maximum number of conspirators for a 5% chance of failure during a specific window of time.




Grimes also included some test studies, testing how many people would be required for certain coverups and how long it would take before the possibility of conspiracy collapse became inevitable (distinct from the table above). For instance: Grimes calculated that for NASA to cover up a faked moon landing would have required 411,000 people. It also suggested that with this number, it would have taken 3.68 years for the conspiracy to collapse.

The equation used, and how it is derived, is in the paper, but, honestly, the math is quite complicated. Perhaps someone more congenial to advanced math could calculate how long it would take for the conspiracy to collapse under its own weight.

Perhaps even if, for the sake of the equation, we assume only the 3.14 million survivors were in on it (which would be a laughably conservative figure for this conspiracy), I would lay good money on the odds that, if we assigned a starting date on January 27, 1945 (the day the Soviets liberated Auschwitz), this would reach inevitable failure before the Nuremberg defendants were sentenced. Perhaps it would even have reached that point by V-J Day. As an additional measure, I am contacting the author of the paper to see what he thinks it would be, and, if he replies, I can guarantee there is no way it would have survived to this day.

TL;DR. If the Holocaust was just a conspiracy thought up by the allied powers to discredit the Nazis, there is no way it could have possibly have survived this bloody long without being discredited. Especially without some eyewitness saying something to the contrary.

(July 4, 2016 at 3:05 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: It's a well-known fact in social psychology that a conspiracy is only secure enough as its weakest link. The more links there are, the more likely it is that one of them's going to crack eventually. How many people can sustain a conspiracy for any amount of time?

You know, you only have to take it from the horse's mouth. The Himmer speech at Posen, which I posted repeatedly. Subtitled, for the idiots feeling like being nazi and still don't understand german.

Alternatively, one could take the wittness testimonies of thousands of surivivors, or, if this isn't good enough, the ones of Rudolf Höss, Oswald Pohl or Franz Stangl. Though I doubt that a recreational nazi would even know who these persons were.

Alternatively, one could also take my statement when I say that there's a reason why I don't have any extended family.

But all of this is above the paygrade of Wyrd's brain cells.