(August 3, 2016 at 3:24 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 3, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: In the case of Noah, God warned them of the flood for 120 years before it happened.

In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah God said he would spare the city if he could find just 10 righteous people living there.

But Huggy, we're talking about women here, don't you remember? That was the specific example of collective punishment that was bruited. Why are you arguing the "justice" of other examples? We can get into those later, sure. But address this point in its own, ahem, context.

Do you consider the collective punishment of women for Eve's "sin" just, or not? Explain why.

I notice you still haven't answered my other question yet ... must not want to hear me answer yours much, I gather.

The Man was cursed as well...

Eve is to blame for the state the world is in, she committed adultery with the serpent and subsequently hybridized the human race. We are nothing like what God intended in the beginning, the fact that there were giants, shows that something happened genetically.  Since everyone is born through the act of sex (which God never intended), and those inherited genetics are the reason why why we are collectively cursed.

Hence why you must be born again. Make sense?

Once you are reborn, then man and woman are back to being equals.

Quote:Galatians 3
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Therefore there is no injustice if God made a way to return to our original state.

(August 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:  

I thought he could see all including the future?

[In Character (woo hoo) ] 

Atheists have no objective basis for evaluating morality. All they have is cultural norms, what is right or wrong for a given people in a given place at a given time. 

Christians have the Bible: Yahweh's eternal, universal and unchanging principles that apply to all people at all times and all places. 

Checkmate atheists!

What's that? The Old Testament laws? 

Oh no, the OT laws there were only reflective of the cultural norms for the Jews, defining what is right or wrong for those people at that given place and that given time.

(August 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The Man was cursed as well...

Eve is to blame for the state the world is in, she committed adultery with the serpent and subsequently hybridized the human race. We are nothing like what God intended in the beginning, the fact that there were giants, shows that something happened genetically.  Since everyone is born through the act of sex (which God never intended), and those inherited genetics are the reason why why we are collectively cursed.

LMAO. Eve rode the Snake and that justifies all women throughout eternity being socially subjugated?

You can't make this shit up, folks.

Oh, wait -- you apparently can.

(August 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Hence why you must be born again. Make sense?

Once you are reborn, then man and woman are back to being equals.

Quote:Galatians 3
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Therefore there is no injustice if God made a way to return to our original state.

No that doesn't make sense at all. Goodness is not conditional. If goodness is conditional, then morality is relative (as opposed to subjective).

So now you're arguing moral relativism?

I sure do wish you'd make up your mind. Also, it'd be nice if you quit shitposting Bible quotes and speak your own thoughts ... if you have any that haven't been programmed into you. You should be able to formulate your own thoughts in your own words to continue this discussion.

I note you still haven't answered my question: Are you defending an evil god, or moral subjectivity? I will now add: Or moral relativism?

Mayhap you simply don't have an answer, but are afraid to admit as much? Perhaps you haven't given this much thought?

I'd wager you haven't questioned your own preconceptions enough to lay out a cogent case for your programmatic feelings. That's okay -- doubts are fearful things. Hug your pillow, Huggy, and sleep easy at night.

(August 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: ...the fact that there were giants, shows that something happened genetically. 

The stuff Christians believe never ceases to amaze me.

(August 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Since everyone is born through the act of sex (which God never intended)...

How can something happen that an omniscient, omnipotent god never intended?

And how did he intend us to procreate without using the organs Huggy would allege he himself gave us?

(August 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(August 3, 2016 at 3:24 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: But Huggy, we're talking about women here, don't you remember? That was the specific example of collective punishment that was bruited. Why are you arguing the "justice" of other examples? We can get into those later, sure. But address this point in its own, ahem, context.

Do you consider the collective punishment of women for Eve's "sin" just, or not? Explain why.

I notice you still haven't answered my other question yet ... must not want to hear me answer yours much, I gather.

The Man was cursed as well...

Eve is to blame for the state the world is in, she committed adultery with the serpent and subsequently hybridized the human race. We are nothing like what God intended in the beginning, the fact that there were giants, shows that something happened genetically.  Since everyone is born through the act of sex (which God never intended), and those inherited genetics are the reason why why we are collectively cursed.

Hence why you must be born again. Make sense?

Once you are reborn, then man and woman are back to being equals.

Quote:Galatians 3
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Therefore there is no injustice if God made a way to return to our original state.

Dafuq did I just read?  God made us with sex parts and the strong desire to use them but never intended for us to have sex? "Something happened genetically" and now we are "cursed"... what?  Also giants (?). And Eve committed adultery with the serpent? Against whom did she commit adultery, God or Adam?

(July 29, 2016 at 12:53 pm)robvalue Wrote: We've been through this so many times. Drich won't rest until he's dragged everyone down to his level. He can't seem to believe some of us hope and strive for a better world.

He's doing a bang up job of showing how dangerous it is to base your morality on a grim fairy tale though. We should thank him, really.

I as an atheist don't have anyone else to thank except myself and other people for the horrible way we treat people, yet Drich here thanks god for those horrible actions.  

I don't understand the strong conviction for a theist to equate themselves with an atheist and feel good about it.  If all the the horrible things you think and believe as a theist are just the same as an atheist then come join our side and drop god and you'll find nothing has changed.

(August 3, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: In the case of Noah, God warned them of the flood for 120 years before it happened.

The flood didn't just "happen," God willfully made it happen. Which makes him a murderer. He could have...ya know...NOT done it.

Quote:In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah God said he would spare the city if he could find just 10 righteous people living there.

Ah, he'd spare the city, but would he have spared the teenage girls being offered up to an angry mob of rapists?

But, this is besides the obvious point that God could have just shown mercy and NOT murdered an entire city of people, rather than laying down a ridiculous ultimatum he knew they couldn't meet, and then placing the blame on the victims...

Quote:Adam was doing fine for at least 1000 years before Eve showed up...

Again...Eve did not just "show up". God intentionally created her and with full knowledge that she was going to disappoint him. You seem to like to deflect the responsibility of god's actions away from him.

Quote:Lifelong sexual assault, what?

Stay with me Hugs. In your words, 'women back then had no say in who they married, so by your definition all prearranged marriages were rapes.' Yes. When you are forced to have sex with someone who you don't want to have sex with...that is rape/sexual assault.

So, I'll repeat the question. You consider it just to punish an entire population of women in such a cruel and tortuous way, for the deeds of one human? ESPECIALLY considering that God had full knowledge of it before hand?

(August 3, 2016 at 4:06 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: The Man was cursed as well...

Eve is to blame for the state the world is in, she committed adultery with the serpent and subsequently hybridized the human race. We are nothing like what God intended in the beginning -

-I'll stop you there. If God is omniscient and knows everything that will happen from beginning to end, then how on earth could he have had different intentions for his creation than how they actually turned out??

Quote:The fact that there were giants, shows that something happened genetically.  Since everyone is born through the act of sex (which God never intended), and those inherited genetics are the reason why why we are collectively cursed.

Again...God let loose this whole charade knowing EXACTLY how it was going to go down. There is no way logically, within the structure of god's triple O attributes, that the outcome could have been different from his intentions.

Setting your kids up to fail...and to suffer? That's pretty unjust. And frankly, kind of sick.