(August 28, 2016 at 1:29 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(August 28, 2016 at 12:43 pm)Kosh Wrote: I work for a non-profit hospital organization.  I'm in radiology I.T. and not privy to specific financial information, but our organization does disclose general financial data to us.  I don't know about the hospital he went to, but here is what would probably happen in ours.
 
If he's like most people without insurance and money, he'll ignore the first few bills.  Eventually he and the hospital will get in contact and some sort of "settlement" will be agreed upon that is well below the face value of the bill.  He'll pay some amount per month, but maybe he'll even blow that off.  The remaining balance will get written off.
 
People like your brother are a large part of the reason why prices are artificially bloated.  Those of us with private insurance are subsidizing everyone without insurance.  Drug pricing is negotiated and factors into this as well.
 
I will say this, none of the insurance companies pay the "face value" of the bills either.   The amount they pay is negotiated behind closed doors.  This is why having a medical procedure outside of your insurance companies primary network is so costly.
 
Tell your brother to fuck off because he is part the reason our insurance rates are so high.

It's a chicken and egg issue.  Why can other countries afford to have lower costs, and cover their poor and uninsured?
And who's to say insurance would even have covered any of it?  As others have pointed out, insurance companies often refuse to pay for procedures, as well as "negotiating" a lower price, when regular citizens are actually billed these ridiculous amounts, so THEY are covering what the corporate insurance companies are refusing to cover.

I do wish my brother had insurance, but at the same time, blaming a sick guy who you don't even know is so American, instead of understanding this stems first from our "corporate rulers".

So go fuck off, yourself.

Really?  WTF
 
You've already stated that he's an Obamacare hater, had the money for insurance but opted out.  That's all I need to know about him in the particular circumstance.
 
It's people running around just like him with that kind of attitude that leaves us stuck in the fucking free market health-for-profit mess we are in.

I'm just thankful for the NHS, as poorly run and mishandled as it is. I'm a T1 diabetic and rely on it several times a year. Even on a decent salary I can't afford to shell out for private beyond what my company gives me (minimum).

(August 28, 2016 at 5:16 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: I'm just thankful for the NHS, as poorly run and mishandled as it is. I'm a T1 diabetic and rely on it several times a year. Even on a decent salary I can't afford to shell out for private beyond what my company gives me (minimum).

Same here. It's not perfect, but mostly reliable.

I live in the UK and was on holiday in Germany recently when I took ill and was hospitalised, where I had a whole heap of drugs administered and an MRI scan done. My NHS card (free to all UK residents) covered all costs. I've lived in Germany too, and health insurance is mandatory and based entirely on your wage and it covers all medical care you need. We even once got some money back one year, I think the company had made too much money and by law had to cut its premiums retrospectively.

I look at US healthcare and I wonder where the hell all the money you spend on it goes.

The pockets of rich corporate cocksuckers.

BTW, don't try that after Brexit.  May not work so well.

(August 28, 2016 at 5:33 pm)Minimalist Wrote: The pockets of rich corporate cocksuckers.

BTW, don't try that after Brexit.  May not work so well.

It will still work, Public hospital staff might be cranky, but they still do their jobs, most of them.

How do doctors reconcile the Hippocratic oath with generating cash and getting bonuses?

(August 28, 2016 at 1:35 am)AFTT47 Wrote:

(August 27, 2016 at 10:56 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Oh, I forgot to mention that the hospital in question is a nonprofit establishment.

https://www.bannerhealth.com/locations/s...cal-center#

So they don't have to worry about those pesky taxes, either.

My wife is an RN at that hospital, Min. She's a floating nurse, not assigned to any particular station but she most often works with psychiatric patients so I guess you probably didn't see her.

I'm a tech/physical science guy so economics is witchcraft to me. I don't really know what I'm talking about here so I'll throw that up up-front but I wonder who pays for the cutting-edge technology you have available at that hospital including available drugs. I'm not making any insinuations here because I really don't have a clue to the answer to my question. I don't know if the hospital chain (Banner Health is major and is one of the largest employers in the Phoenix area and has hospitals in California and Alaska as well) is a robber baron or they have genuine expenses related to development of the cutting-edge technology that keeps our old, happy asses alive longer than our predecessors.

Not saying you're wrong, Min but I question your cynicism. There's always two sides to a story and all that. We (Americans) do seem to pay more for our health care but we also seem to be more beneficiaries to the cutting edge of medical break-throughs. Somebody has to pay for that. R&D isn't cheap.

On your economics point most economists treat it as witchcraft too. About the only two major modern economists who work under a reality based system ate Paul Krugman and Ha-Joon Chang (I'd say Daniel Kahnemann too but he's a psychologist working in economics, not an economist).

On your R&D point, the majority of R&D is either state run or state financed. Most major companies have R&D budgets only for the generous tax breaks spending labelling as such generates (often times you get more of your tax bill written off than what is reported spent). Hence Gillette having a $2bn "research spend" putting an extra blade on their disposables.

(August 28, 2016 at 4:54 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(August 28, 2016 at 12:22 am)thesummerqueen Wrote: I can't even finish reading this thread. It makes me too fucking angry.

I had an $800 bill that blew up to $1000 just to have some glue applied to my chin. Not even stitches. GLUE.

I don't remember what my bill was for when I sewed my finger. I had insurance then. I think it was a $250 copay altogether.

Holy hole in a doughnut!

1 G for some glue? Shit I had my a cut in my head glued together a good decade ago after hitting it off the side of a table (I was drunk, long story, or not actually), if I'd been hit with that bill I'd have requested to bleed out!

Protip: Superglue was invented as a battlefield dressing. It's perfectly safe to Superglue a cut together -- or have someone else do it for you if yo're drunk, young lady.

No, I'm not joking. CA glue is a great adhesive bandage.

(August 28, 2016 at 1:29 pm)Aroura Wrote: I do wish my brother had insurance, but at the same time, blaming a sick guy who you don't even know is so American, instead of understanding this stems first from our "corporate rulers".

So go fuck off, yourself.

He had the income to buy into the system, but didn't. Who made that choice?