(September 24, 2016 at 8:48 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 7:55 pm)Lek Wrote: If God does not intervene how have you come across this knowledge?

I must confess I believe I have experienced a Divine Intervention. It did not change a single external/physical aspect of my objective life. But it changed a great deal inside me. Without going into detail, that was the authoring of my experiential faith, which transformed believing perhaps there is a God to knowing God exists (omnipresent awareness) and I am interpenetrated (transparent) to it's mind which permeates the universe as the background field that all phenomena vibrates upon. It is perfectly still, inter-penetrating and permeating everything in the universe. It was both an awesome and terrifying experience and I could only withstand the experience for less than a literal minute. And when I contracted out of fear, the experience left me.

The only "knowledge" it imparted to me was it's self existent presence.

What I present as my model are the works I've done there after to explain it to my mind, accounting for as much of the universe, inside through personal exploration and outside by scientific evidence that I can fit into my mind....which is being forced not only to grow and shed skins of ego but grow new organs of perception and forms of operations beyond single self/single lifetime paradigms. I have much growth still ahead of me.


It's also encouraging to find that I'm not the first to describe GOD and creation in this manner. Many ancient origin stories (Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek,) begin with an infinite undifferentiated, formless substance often describe as water and the space of the universe is made from a separation of the waters often by vibration of some kind like the blowing of a couch shell by Vishnu or the speaking of "The Word" by Re/Ra and YHVH. The Ain Soph Aur and Tzimtuzm of mystic Judaism tells of and limitless light of God that is contracted into 10 viels that hide the face of God from the space of creation which exists like a tent with a 7 branched golden lamp-stand in the center giving off light.

In my model, the individual universes have 10 membrane like divisions that are nested together supra-symmetrically to form a holographic unit. The above is like the below and the inside is like the outside. They are the "veils" God left in the wake of it's contraction so as not to overwhelm all space with 100% mass. They unfold naturally and in order like the colors from unified "white" light. Only instead of a static 2d spread of EM frequency it's a dynamic, counter balanced 3d spread of space-time relativity.

I must admit that I can't keep up with you on this, but what good would it do to know and understand it all? I tend to see your whole purpose in this as just fulfilling curiosity unless it would do something for you as a person. Does knowing this make you live life differently or be a better person?

(September 24, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 9:17 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote: It's common for people to make an attempt at justifying the actions of a God that does not necessarily coincide with their personal morality, or belief of what God should be. There are multiple versions of God, Hell, Heaven, you name it. I'm beginning to think the Bible is nothing more than an ancient 'choose your own adventure' book.

There is no real God. It is an ancient concept that that is no longer relevant.

Well, I do believe in the God of the bible and I, and others, are trying to understand his reasons for doing what he does.  I'm actually not trying to justify his actions since I already believe he is just and loving, but I think it helps to illustrate it to others who don't believe he same way.  It's also good to get feedback from other believers and all those familiar with the bible; all which leads to a better understanding of God.  I respect your opinion, but at this point it would take much more than that to convince me that my experience with God isn't real, plus it adds nothing to my thoughts concerning heaven and hell and God's love, despite his seemingly wrathful actions in the old testament.

So! Do you also think that drowning your children for misbehaving can ever be a good idea? If you cannot tben you are morally superior to God. If so , then your an asshole!

(September 24, 2016 at 9:17 pm)Primordial Bisque Wrote: There is no real God. It is an ancient concept that that is no longer relevant.

It might not be relevant to you, but it is for the majority of the people who are currently on and that have passed through this planet.

As long as it continues to produce disharmony, I will seek/create the ways and means to harmonize it.

(September 24, 2016 at 10:22 pm)chimp3 Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 10:15 pm)Lek Wrote: Well, I do believe in the God of the bible and I, and others, are trying to understand his reasons for doing what he does.  I'm actually not trying to justify his actions since I already believe he is just and loving, but I think it helps to illustrate it to others who don't believe he same way.  It's also good to get feedback from other believers and all those familiar with the bible; all which leads to a better understanding of God.  I respect your opinion, but at this point it would take much more than that to convince me that my experience with God isn't real, plus it adds nothing to my thoughts concerning heaven and hell and God's love, despite his seemingly wrathful actions in the old testament.

So! Do you also think that drowning your children for misbehaving can ever be a good idea? If you cannot tben you are morally superior to God. If so , then your an asshole!

Read my original post. I expounded on that there.

(September 24, 2016 at 10:27 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 10:22 pm)chimp3 Wrote: So! Do you also think that drowning your children for misbehaving can ever be a good idea? If you cannot tben you are morally superior to God. If so , then your an asshole!

Read my original post.  I expounded on that there.

You "expounded" on suffering and hell. You did not expound on drowning your own children for misbehaving as a good idea!

Lek, great post and an interesting topic. I can understand why many would relate to the annihilation theory of hell, as eternal torture does not appear equitable regardless of your sins in a finite life.

However, wondering how you reconcile this with Mark 9:48 and Rev 20 where the description of hell, (especially in Rev 20 as the final judgment and place where those judged will spend eternity) is unambiguous as to its finality and enduring state of conscious existence.

(September 24, 2016 at 10:50 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Lek, great post and an interesting topic.  I can understand why many would relate to the annihilation theory of hell, as eternal torture does not appear equitable regardless of your sins in a finite life.  

However, wondering how you reconcile this with Mark 9:48 and Rev 20 where the description of hell, (especially in Rev 20 as the final judgment and place where those judged will spend eternity) is unambiguous as to its finality and enduring state of conscious existence.

Excellent question, but it's late and I'm tired. I promise to answer your question tomorrow though.

(September 24, 2016 at 11:05 pm)Lek Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 10:50 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Lek, great post and an interesting topic.  I can understand why many would relate to the annihilation theory of hell, as eternal torture does not appear equitable regardless of your sins in a finite life.  

However, wondering how you reconcile this with Mark 9:48 and Rev 20 where the description of hell, (especially in Rev 20 as the final judgment and place where those judged will spend eternity) is unambiguous as to its finality and enduring state of conscious existence.

Excellent question, but it's late and I'm tired.  I promise to answer your question tomorrow though.

I do not give a flying shit how you theists reconcile your gitty retakes on iron age mythology. Drowning your children as a form of discipline is the subject on the table! What of it?

Chimp, do you have children?

It's late here too. I'm out for the evening.
I do not condone drowning children as means of discipline. Having raised 6, I have found merit in waterboarding. Don't use pitchers of water like the movies, a hose with constant flow is much more effective.