I am good with a knife, but you are seeking a swordsman. I shall bow out.

(September 25, 2016 at 1:21 am)Maelstrom Wrote: I am good with a knife, but you are seeking a swordsman.  I shall bow out.

Long as you can cut a straight line with your mind, I can follow through with a chainsaw.

(September 25, 2016 at 1:27 am)Arkilogue Wrote: Long as you can cut a straight line with your mind, I can follow through with a chainsaw.

Sorry, not seeking a partner.

(September 25, 2016 at 1:29 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(September 25, 2016 at 1:27 am)Arkilogue Wrote: Long as you can cut a straight line with your mind, I can follow through with a chainsaw.

Sorry, not seeking a partner.

We are all as ships in the night, only passing by.

Theistic religion: "I kiss up to the most powerful looking thing around in the hopes that I'll receive preferential treatment and to avoid punishment."

It does make evolutionary sense that people would try and do this. It's not for me though.

It's just rather painful to watch people kissing up to aspects of their own imagination.

Oh, but Zeus! Now that was a loving god. Love you long time and leave you bearing a chimera of some sort. What a guy.

(September 25, 2016 at 12:06 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: It's late here too.  I'm out for the evening.  
I do not condone drowning children as means of discipline.  Having raised 6, I have found merit in waterboarding.  Don't use pitchers of water  like the movies, a hose with constant flow is much more effective.

Lol, "Spare the torture, spoil the child."

Hopefully one of them will return the favor some day.

(September 25, 2016 at 12:24 am)Maelstrom Wrote:

(September 24, 2016 at 3:38 pm)Lek Wrote: We no longer need to suffer the punishment for our sins.

Oh, really, so "believe in me or burn for eternity" no long applies?

It still applies, but if all come to repentance, at some point it is no longer an issue.  That's one thing I brought in my OP.

(September 24, 2016 at 10:50 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Lek, great post and an interesting topic.  I can understand why many would relate to the annihilation theory of hell, as eternal torture does not appear equitable regardless of your sins in a finite life.  

However, wondering how you reconcile this with Mark 9:48 and Rev 20 where the description of hell, (especially in Rev 20 as the final judgment and place where those judged will spend eternity) is unambiguous as to its finality and enduring state of conscious existence.

I didn't intend for this to be so long, but it kind of ended up that way.  Hope you can hang in.

Mark 9:48New International Version (NIV)
48 where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
   and the fire is not quenched.’[a]

The above verse doesn't refer to the time spent in hell of a person whom God sends there, but rather the nature of hell itself.

Matthew 25:41New International Version (NIV)
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Above he states that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels , who may stay there for eternity.  He also says the worms who eat them do not die, but doesn't say how long we will stay there.  Additionally, the Greek word "aionios", which has been translated to "everlasting" could mean that, but it could also mean a limited age or time period as well.  

Revelation 20:10English Standard Version (ESV)
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Again this verse speaks about the devil, the beast and the false prophets will be.  Again the word "aionios" is arbitrarily translated as everlasting, or "forever and ever".  Whenever a Greek word is translated into English, a certain amount of bias must be applied since you can't choose all the meanings.  The best way to make a choice is to consider how the word is used in other places in the bible and what else the bible has to say about the subject being addressed.  I don't want to ignore verses that seem to support everlasting punishment, but I also want to consider verses that support universal reconciliation or  conditional annihilation.  In my study I have determined that both of these views have more biblical support, as long as a limited time in hell is included, since I believe that the bible speaks of those who are not in Christ going there.  I also believe those in hell will suffer there.  I recommend that every follower of Christ should do a study of all verses that would lead to one's idea of hell and punishment.  I can throw out a few, but there are tons.

John 12:47New International Version (NIV)
47 “For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

2 Corinthians 5:19New International Version (NIV)
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

Titus 2:11New International Version (NIV)
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

2 Peter 3:9New International Version (NIV)
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

One last personal statement:  Would a truly loving God allow someone he loves unconditionally suffer never ending torture in hell in exchange for a life of, say 80 years, of rejecting him on earth?  Wrath for sin is one thing, but a punishment that goes on for 20 billion years and is just getting warmed up, doesn't come from the God of he bible.  In fact, I see it as totally against the teaching of the bible.  Finally, it the devil ends up with probably more people in his realm than God does in his, who has won the war of good vs evil?  For eternity evil will continue to exist in a huge population of people who are continually cursing God and the issue of evil has never been resolved.  Evil would still exist for eternity.

(September 24, 2016 at 11:19 pm)chimp3 Wrote: I do not give a flying shit how you theists reconcile your gitty retakes on iron age mythology. Drowning your children as a form of discipline is the subject on the table! What of it?

Yes. I think it was OK for children to drown in the great flood, just as I think that it's OK for everyone, including children, to die.