(October 7, 2016 at 1:23 pm)Aegon Wrote: It is a common response to abuse, but are you actually going to compare the process of circumcision to serious physical and/or sexual abuse that could last for a much longer period in a child's life?

Does it matter how many times your uncle diddles you?  Is it better if it only happens the once, is over quickly, and you don't remember it?  Does -that- get the abuser off the hook?OFC not.  At lkeast your diddling uncle didn;t takle a knife to you, slicing pieces off while he did what he did.  Unless he did...and then suddenly we realize that it actually -is- pretty nasty.  

Quote:Do you think those who were cut are psychologically damaged in some way because they experienced something the literal day they were born? I think the multitude of cut men who come out and say, "Eh, big deal" in response to the anti-circumcision movement does give some legitimacy to my argument. So many people paint circumcision as this awful, abusive, horrific practice, and, regardless of whether it is or not, when the people who have experienced circumcision are largely indifferent, I think it says something. 

You think it says something, but again..you're operating out of a fundamental disconnect of not caring because you can't and have no reason to.  You;'re indifferent because you don;t remember, but I asked a question about that before..and another just now....you might want to consider this more deeply.  

Quote:I was born in Brooklyn and grew up on Long Island. In other words, I was surrounded by Jews. The fact that most men in the area are cut, combined with the medical benefits*, it seemed like an easy decision for my parents to make. And I have yet to feel upset about it.

*I assume you know the benefits already so I won't bother getting into them. And yes, I understand that the benefits may not be enough to warrant the surgery on their own, but in combination with the cultural norms of the area I was born, the decision made perfect sense.

I know the benefits to a clean dick, that you simply assume benefits is, again, at least potentially an artifact of your not giving a shit, swimming within the cultural trends, and imagining that there must be some reason that we do it when that';s not at all why it was or is done.....and accepting those ad hoc rationalizations and equivocations -as- reasons for doing it because they serve the cultural trend and your indifference.

We all do this, about something.  Some of us about many somethings.

While I am circumcised myself, that  doesn't mean my little head hasn't been in a foreskin lately.

I'm about to get TMI for some of you here.

All of you should know by now that I am transgender. I was circumcised at birth whether I wanted it or not. This introduces things to surgery that I shouldn't have had to think about. Less material to work with means more trouble.

Should my parents have had that legal right to make that choice for me?

I think we passed the TMI boundary the minute we began to imagine the relative levels of grit on cut and uncut peen, lol. We've all got that one penis we regret, right?

(October 7, 2016 at 1:29 pm)Jesster Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As I have explained, the difference between the 2 is that one is a much more minor procedure than the other. I take that into account.

You are missing the point.

Your earlier argument is that it is much simpler early on. This is the case with both of them. If you want to know another difference, though, the appendix has far worse potential issues later on.

This has nothing to do with my question though. The question was "should parents legally have the right to make this choice?"

Yes, it is simpler earlier on. But I never said this is some sort of rule of thumb that should apply to everything across the board. I was speaking in the context of a circumcising, which is a very different type of procedure than surgery. When you're talking about a different procedure, especially a major surgery to remove a part of your organ from inside your body, it changes the context. Should parents legally have the right to make the choice to circumcise their son? In my opinion, yes. Should they have the right to other, more drastic medical procedures for preventative type reasons? I don't know. I guess it would depend on a lot. But just because I think one should be legal (circumcision) doesn't mean I think they all should be.

(October 7, 2016 at 1:42 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes, it is simpler earlier on. But I never said this is some sort of rule of thumb that should apply to everything across the board. I was speaking in the context of a circumcising, which is a very different type of procedure than surgery. When you're talking about a different procedure, especially a major surgery to remove a part of your organ from inside your body, it changes the context. Should parents legally have the right to make the choice to circumcise their son? In my opinion, yes. Should they have the right to other, more drastic medical procedures for preventative type reasons? I don't know. I guess it would depend on a lot. But just because I think one should be legal (circumcision) doesn't mean I think they all should be.

(October 7, 2016 at 1:38 pm)Jesster Wrote: I'm about to get TMI for some of you here.

All of you should know by now that I am transgender. I was circumcised at birth whether I wanted it or not. This introduces things to surgery that I shouldn't have had to think about. Less material to work with means more trouble.

Should my parents have had that legal right to make that choice for me?

(October 7, 2016 at 12:17 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 12:10 pm)Rhythm Wrote: LOL, good god.  Someone decides to do that shit to themselves just to get some nutjob girl to go down on them?  That;s pretty much the definition of a bad decision.

To be clear, I'm not saying I would make my husband go wash himself before we had sex if he was uncut (he is cut). 

I'm just saying I can see how it would make sense that I might get more UTI's because of it. So far I have never had one.

I don't have one and never had one either. I am uncut and proud.....

(October 7, 2016 at 1:23 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: His foreskin is gripped with two hemostats (needle-nosed pliers) and a blunt object is forced between his foreskin and glans, tearing the connective tissue. This is very painful and is comparable to having a blunt object shoved under a fingernail.

This was something I learned about in the previous discussion about circumcision. It kinda made the pro-circumcision "young boys don't clean themselves properly" argument redundant, because the foreskin is actually attached to the glans when you are young. The average age of first retraction was 10. Boys at that age can easily be taught to clean themselves properly.

From Wiki:

Circumcision has been suggested to affect semen displacement. Circumcision causes the coronal ridge to be more pronounced, and it has been hypothesized that this could enhance semen displacement. This is supported by females' reports of sexual intercourse with circumcised males. Females report that their vaginal secretions diminish as intercourse with a circumcised male progresses, and that circumcised males thrust more deeply. It has therefore been suggested that the more pronounced coronal ridge, combined with the deeper thrusting, causes the vaginal secretions of the female to be displaced in the same way as rival sperm can be

(October 7, 2016 at 1:36 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

Quote:I was born in Brooklyn and grew up on Long Island. In other words, I was surrounded by Jews. The fact that most men in the area are cut, combined with the medical benefits*, it seemed like an easy decision for my parents to make. And I have yet to feel upset about it.

*I assume you know the benefits already so I won't bother getting into them. And yes, I understand that the benefits may not be enough to warrant the surgery on their own, but in combination with the cultural norms of the area I was born, the decision made perfect sense.

I know the benefits to a clean dick, that you simply assume benefits is, again, at least potentially an artifact of your not giving a shit, swimming within the cultural trends, and imagining that there must be some reason that we do it when that';s not at all why it was or is done.....and accepting those ad hoc rationalizations and equivocations -as- reasons for doing it because they serve the cultural trend and your indifference.

We all do this, about something.  Some of us about many somethings.

So you're going to tell me that there can never be complications that arise with foreskin? Phimosis isn't a thing? Paraphimosis? I'm not "assuming" there are benefits to circumcision, I know there are. I "assumed" you knew them. Are they enough to warrant the operation by themselves? Up to the parent but probably not.