(October 7, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Well they do have 'reasons' even if you don't think they're valid.  There is no law against it.  Reasonable people should be able to disagree about it without coming to blows.

This^

And personally I don't care if a parent chooses to circumcise their son or not. I only care whether the decision was made with the boy's best interest at heart, whatever it was.

So if I think the boy's best interest at heart is to lock him up in a cage and starve him, then you'll agree with me?

(October 7, 2016 at 3:09 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:07 pm)RobertE Wrote: You could say as a whole, but I am guessing you have never been in an abusive relationship. I have the scars to prove it.

Pay back can be a bitch.  Too bad when it gets deflected to innocent bystanders.  Matricide is the obviously healthy resolution.  

Payback? My ex was from a family who hard fights because of alcohol in front of complete strangers and family or friends and they cared not one jot. He would be drinking ricard, she would be drinking 6 bottles of fizzy wine at lunch, same for the evening too. So, basically all the family have grown up seeing two people fight and think it is the correct thing to do. I had stitches in my arm when I wanted to leave for England because I had had enough. She drove 100+ miles to take me back and I agreed. She slapped me, punched me, broke a broom over my back, spat in my face, and not once did I lift a finger, and I am very proud of that.

(October 7, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Well they do have 'reasons' even if you don't think they're valid.  There is no law against it.  Reasonable people should be able to disagree about it without coming to blows.

This^

And personally I don't care if a parent chooses to circumcise their son or not. I only care whether the decision was made with the boy's best interest at heart, whatever it was.

So, then, how about removing a clitoris?  To either of you? Same reasons, they're doing it because they have their daughters best interest at heart, whatever that is, hard as it may be to accept.  Do you care whether or not parents choose to remove their daughters clitoris? I don't harangue people for circumcising their sons, myself....but the things that people say, sometimes........

See, that's where the "coming to blows" comes in, lol. If we rail against the one, for it's idiotic non reasons...how can we fail to rail against the other...for the -same- idiotic non reasons?

IMHO, Rob E nailed it. We're all white knighting in the case of the girl, and saying fuck em, in the case of the boy. We're so used to it, we do it casually as a matter of speech and civil conversation between purported non-savages.

(October 7, 2016 at 3:14 pm)RobertE Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:09 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Pay back can be a bitch.  Too bad when it gets deflected to innocent bystanders.  Matricide is the obviously healthy resolution.  

Payback? My ex was from a family who hard fights because of alcohol in front of complete strangers and family or friends and they cared not one jot. He would be drinking ricard, she would be drinking 6 bottles of fizzy wine at lunch, same for the evening too. So, basically all the family have grown up seeing two people fight and think it is the correct thing to do. I had stitches in my arm when I wanted to leave for England because I had had enough. She drove 100+ miles to take me back and I agreed. She slapped me, punched me, broke a broom over my back, spat in my face, and not once did I lift a finger, and I am very proud of that.

I'm not trying to diminish your experience, but sometimes abuse can be mutually consensual and hot. Just putting that out there.

(October 7, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Well they do have 'reasons' even if you don't think they're valid.  There is no law against it.  Reasonable people should be able to disagree about it without coming to blows.

This^

And personally I don't care if a parent chooses to circumcise their son or not. I only care whether the decision was made with the boy's best interest at heart, whatever it was.

What are the 'boys best interests', though? At least explain clearly, since hygiene doesn't cut (sorry for the pun) the mustard with most of us. I am sure that if you ask any man here if they wash themselves, there will obviously be a 99% positive response, with the other being negative because he is being a funny c**t. So, apart from hygiene, what other reason could be had for abusing a child in that way?

(October 7, 2016 at 3:17 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:14 pm)RobertE Wrote: Payback? My ex was from a family who hard fights because of alcohol in front of complete strangers and family or friends and they cared not one jot. He would be drinking ricard, she would be drinking 6 bottles of fizzy wine at lunch, same for the evening too. So, basically all the family have grown up seeing two people fight and think it is the correct thing to do. I had stitches in my arm when I wanted to leave for England because I had had enough. She drove 100+ miles to take me back and I agreed. She slapped me, punched me, broke a broom over my back, spat in my face, and not once did I lift a finger, and I am very proud of that.

I'm not trying to diminish your experience, but sometimes abuse can be mutually consensual and hot. Just putting that out there.

No problem EP. I'll be totally honest, I didn't find it "mutually consensual" or "hot", since I never grew up in a violent environment. I don't fancy walking to the shops with a black eye, do you? In fact, I was pretty close to giving her name to the authorities and she would have had the children taken away immediately because she didn't have a leg to stand on.

(October 7, 2016 at 3:20 pm)RobertE Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:17 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: I'm not trying to diminish your experience, but sometimes abuse can be mutually consensual and hot. Just putting that out there.

No problem EP. I'll be totally honest, I didn't find it "mutually consensual" or "hot", since I never grew up in a violent environment. I don't fancy walking to the shops with a black eye, do you? In fact, I was pretty close to giving her name to the authorities and she would have had the children taken away immediately because she didn't have a leg to stand on.

I wasn't talking about your case. I was just saying, in some relationships, that stuff is OK and consensual.

I would be ok with getting a black eye from my girlfriend, given the right circumstances and set up. It's all about what both people like and the atmosphere. It can be playful.

When it's not playful however, it's just wrong. I agree. And people should be locked up for it. 

All I'm saying is, that's not always the case.

(October 7, 2016 at 3:14 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: This^

And personally I don't care if a parent chooses to circumcise their son or not. I only care whether the decision was made with the boy's best interest at heart, whatever it was.

So, then, how about removing a clitoris?  To either of you? Same reasons, they're doing it because they have their daughters best interest at heart, whatever that is, hard as it may be to accept.  Do you care whether or not parents choose to remove their daughters clitoris?  I don't harangue people for circumcising their sons, myself....but the things that people say, sometimes........

See, that's where the "coming to blows" comes in, lol.  If we rail against the one, for it's idiotic non reasons...how can we fail to rail against the other...for the -same- idiotic non reasons?

IMHO, Rob E nailed it.  We're all white knighting in the case of the girl, and saying fuck em, in the case of the boy.  We're so used to it, we do it casually as a matter of speech and civil conversation between purported non-savages.

We are still living in the age of cavemen mentality and to be honest, it will take a few more generations, perhaps even more, to get rid of this mentality unless it is genetic, in which case, we will always look down on the "weaker sex", and try to protect them. A "me Tarzan, you Jane", attitude........

(October 7, 2016 at 3:22 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(October 7, 2016 at 3:20 pm)RobertE Wrote: No problem EP. I'll be totally honest, I didn't find it "mutually consensual" or "hot", since I never grew up in a violent environment. I don't fancy walking to the shops with a black eye, do you? In fact, I was pretty close to giving her name to the authorities and she would have had the children taken away immediately because she didn't have a leg to stand on.

I wasn't talking about your case. I was just saying, in some relationships, that stuff is OK and consensual.

I would be ok with getting a black eye from my girlfriend, given the right circumstances and set up. It's all about what both people like and the atmosphere. It can be playful.

When it's not playful however, it's just wrong. I agree. And people should be locked up for it. 

All I'm saying is, that's not always the case.

Of course. I agree with the entirety of your post. With me, I feel I cannot do anything like that because it is simply negative, but each to their own I guess.

@Rob E

Preachin to the choir amigo, preachin to the choir.  I don;t actually have any gripes with the mentality on it's merits.  I revel in it, I think it's part of what makes us who we are and part of why we're so damned good at what we do.  Non-conscious divisions of labor.  Social insects do it too, only they do it genetically rather than sociologically (and to be fair we've engaged in a fair bit of warrior caste breeding programs ourselves).  The end effect is that we both produce our rough and tumbles to handle the undesirables.

I don't even want to get rid of the mentality, I just think we'd be better off recognizing that we're doing it, when we do it, lol. The day that the human race turns into the gaggle of civil creatures that we all imagine ourselves to be is the day that my daughters cruel boot is felt on every neck.

(and all of my progeny are going to come correct with every ounce, every centimeter, of "dirty" biological apparatus they possess)