(November 3, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 11:56 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Do you mind if I take this a step further? Is your idea of conception, and therefore human life, the moment that sperm penetrates egg and a zygote is formed? Or is it when the fertilized egg actually implants? Or is it a some time frame further down the line?

Next, do you consider abortion to be on the same level as homicide?

Edit: Maybe you could start a new thread outside of introductions. Or a couple of new threads.

When sperm meets egg and a whole new brand of human DNA is formed and begins to multiply. That's a new human being right there at the moment of conception.

At the stage of conception, it's just a cell. Is every cell in your body a human being?

(November 3, 2016 at 12:01 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 10:25 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That would be a rather shallow, overly simplified version of the answer, but it isn't the incorrect answer according to our beliefs.

God created natural law, which is consistent with his nature. His nature is love. Murder goes against natural law. It goes against the way our world was designed to work and against the way we were designed to feel, which is empathy for our fellow humans.

Like Abaris said, a rather shallow, overly simplified understanding of the bible is kind of a fundamentalist's specialty.  Unfortunately that is our new member's beginning state.  I think he shows some promise for advancement though.  Perhaps he can move on up to a more nuanced grasp of what xtianity can be about.

Catholics have been rolling back literal interpretations for years and years.  At one time the blasphemy that the earth revolved around the sun instead of the other way might net you imprisonment or death from the catholic church.  To its credit that is no longer the case.  Your religious tribe has gone on to embrace evolution.  I'm pretty sure that there are Catholic priests and higher ups who regard heaven, hell and God as allegorical.  Who knows, some day they might decide the hoi polloi are ready to join them.

But it is harder for evangelical literalists.  They're dug in like tics on every bible verse and have seeming immunity to all the cognitive dissonance.  Our new guy has it much harder than you to hold on to his faith while also make sense of the modern world.

We'll he's being polite and respectful, and that's the most important thing.

(November 3, 2016 at 12:17 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 11:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I do not believe the stories in the ot are literal.

Watch out, we have a heretic over here!

But, according to your Catholic doctrine, all those stories are literal, otherwise no need to be baptized to wash away Original Sin which was placed upon humanity because of Adam & Eve.  And even Jesus believed the Noah flood myth because he referenced it in Matthew 24:37.

Incorrect. A Catholic is free to interpret ot stories as either literal or fictolional.

(November 3, 2016 at 2:41 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: When sperm meets egg and a whole new brand of human DNA is formed and begins to multiply. That's a new human being right there at the moment of conception.

At the stage of conception, it's just a cell. Is every cell in your body a human being?

All the cells in my body make up me - a human being. At one point I was only made up of a single cell. And I was still human at that point. Not some sort of other species.

(November 3, 2016 at 12:22 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 11:42 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I do not believe the stories in the ot are literal.

I see...
None of them are literal?

What are they there for?

We'll it's not like the Catholic Church made them up. They were there during the time of the Jews before Jesus came and before Christianity existed. Some of the ot stories have certain valuable lessons in them, but they must remain in their context and should not be raised above church authority... which always comes first in catholicism.

(November 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 2:41 pm)Irrational Wrote: At the stage of conception, it's just a cell. Is every cell in your body a human being?

All the cells in my body make up me - a human being. At one point I was only made up of a single cell. And I was still human at that point. Not some sort of other species.

Take care not to conflate human with a human being.

Here's a narrative question I've never had answered sufficiently, maybe you can tell me:

What exactly did humans of the time do that provoked God to flood the Earth?

(November 3, 2016 at 3:07 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 2:53 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: All the cells in my body make up me - a human being. At one point I was only made up of a single cell. And I was still human at that point. Not some sort of other species.

Take care not to conflate human with a human being.

Umm ok lol

(November 3, 2016 at 2:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Incorrect. A Catholic is free to interpret ot stories as either literal or fictolional.

Now they are. But as I said in one of our previous discussions. The priests of my childhood didn't see it that way. They were very much into literal interpretation of the OT and threatened us with all kinds of eternal punishments based on the stories. One of my first stepping stones to becoming an atheist, since it collided with two things in my upbringing. My father's constant reminder to always question authority and my parent's liberal and benevolent understanding of god and his message.

That was roughly ten years after the second Vaticanum, but the church being a very slow moving ship, the message hadn't reached the priests as of yet. It took the old generation dying out to come to more liberal views. But by saying you can take these stories the way you want to, is simply shifting the burden of theological responsibility. You can take them literally or not. That's why there are still priests who take them literally and teach the same malignant bullshit we were brought up to believe and to feel bad about.

Evangelicals, thankfully, are a very small portion of christianity. Even a smaller portion take the bible as the literal word of god. Most of them sfely contained in pockets of the USA. That guy can be as polite as they come. A literalist of any religious script is on the same lines as the Taliban. They follow an archaic code of conduct that rightfully has no place in this time and life.

(November 3, 2016 at 2:46 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 12:17 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: Watch out, we have a heretic over here!

But, according to your Catholic doctrine, all those stories are literal, otherwise no need to be baptized to wash away Original Sin which was placed upon humanity because of Adam & Eve.  And even Jesus believed the Noah flood myth because he referenced it in Matthew 24:37.

Incorrect. A Catholic is free to interpret ot stories as either literal or fictolional.

Unless things have changed since I became an atheist, I believe you are mistaken.  Oh, everyone is free to interpret the stories as literal or fictional, of course, but official church doctrine is that the OT stories are all true.

Like I asked, what is the point in washing away original sin with baptism if the Adam & Eve story is false?