(November 4, 2016 at 10:32 am)Faith No More Wrote:

(November 4, 2016 at 10:28 am)Shell B Wrote: The point is that it doesn't matter that it's a taste of his own medicine. It's the hypocrisy that bears mentioning. You get one or the other. A place is either a safe space and people like Drich go or it's a place where everyone can say what they mean, regardless of how distasteful, and people like Drich stay.

What hypocrisy?

Well, I'm fairly sure it doesn't apply to you, but the hypocrisy of wanting people banned for unpopular opinions/being mean whilst being mean to the people who have unpopular opinions/are mean. If you don't think people should be mean to you/others, you don't get a pass to be mean just because someone's mean. Say I'm in a bar that prides itself on everyone being allowed to swear, but one day, a guy says the mother of all swear words. He says cunt. Sally at the bar doesn't like the word cunt, so she thinks he should be thrown out. She says "Throw the asshole out." If Sally's idea flies, then people who don't like the word asshole can have her thrown out and so on down the line. I don't think it needs that much explaining.

(November 4, 2016 at 10:18 am)Shell B Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 8:22 pm)Nymphadora Wrote: I can accept that Dan has a differing of opinion. I can accept that he can be blunt. What I cannot and will not accept is that he basically said that a life event of mine didn't happen because I didn't report it. No, sorry. He doesn't get a free pass from me on that.

That being said, I have stayed out of his threads. I have not responded to him. I have done my best to keep the peace by ignoring him. For what it's worth, I have accepted the staff's decision and I have let this shit go. I also can say that I contributed very little to this thread, given the numbers of pages it contains.

I will continue to keep this behind me because my past is my past. I don't live there anymore. However, I will keep a promise to myself and try very hard, in the future, to ignore the posts he makes. I can live with that.

Yeah, I wasn't referring to you. You pretty much said your piece, took your break and let it go after. For the record, I don't think what he said to you was cool or excusable. I just think it's folly to take shit he says to heart. The only reason I think he's a bit right here is that some folks are quick to bully him after giving his bullying behavior as an excuse to ask for him to be banned. The point has always been that if they banned him for it, then they would then have to ban everyone who has been publicly berating him, deserved or otherwise. Also for the record, I think people should be completely allowed to berate him. I just also think he should be able to berate us as well. Again, not directed at you.

Thanks. I know what you said wasn't referring to me. But after his tl;dr wall of text, I needed to put this out there.

(November 4, 2016 at 10:53 am)Nymphadora Wrote:

(November 4, 2016 at 10:18 am)Shell B Wrote: Yeah, I wasn't referring to you. You pretty much said your piece, took your break and let it go after. For the record, I don't think what he said to you was cool or excusable. I just think it's folly to take shit he says to heart. The only reason I think he's a bit right here is that some folks are quick to bully him after giving his bullying behavior as an excuse to ask for him to be banned. The point has always been that if they banned him for it, then they would then have to ban everyone who has been publicly berating him, deserved or otherwise. Also for the record, I think people should be completely allowed to berate him. I just also think he should be able to berate us as well. Again, not directed at you.

Thanks. I know what you said wasn't referring to me. But after his tl;dr wall of text, I needed to put this out there.

I really liked your post. I thought you were really big about it and really mature.

(November 4, 2016 at 10:21 am)Shell B Wrote: Yeah, Evie. It's no secret I think ONI was out of keeping with the rest of AF's policies. Glad to see it go, myself. Anything that leaves so much up to interpretation is going to lead to a lot of misunderstandings.

Same.

(November 4, 2016 at 10:18 am)Shell B Wrote:

(November 3, 2016 at 8:22 pm)Nymphadora Wrote: I can accept that Dan has a differing of opinion. I can accept that he can be blunt. What I cannot and will not accept is that he basically said that a life event of mine didn't happen because I didn't report it. No, sorry. He doesn't get a free pass from me on that.

That being said, I have stayed out of his threads. I have not responded to him. I have done my best to keep the peace by ignoring him. For what it's worth, I have accepted the staff's decision and I have let this shit go. I also can say that I contributed very little to this thread, given the numbers of pages it contains.

I will continue to keep this behind me because my past is my past. I don't live there anymore. However, I will keep a promise to myself and try very hard, in the future, to ignore the posts he makes. I can live with that.

Yeah, I wasn't referring to you. You pretty much said your piece, took your break and let it go after. For the record, I don't think what he said to you was cool or excusable. I just think it's folly to take shit he says to heart. The only reason I think he's a bit right here is that some folks are quick to bully him after giving his bullying behavior as an excuse to ask for him to be banned. The point has always been that if they banned him for it, then they would then have to ban everyone who has been publicly berating him, deserved or otherwise. Also for the record, I think people should be completely allowed to berate him. I just also think he should be able to berate us as well. Again, not directed at you.

I agree 100%

Everyone is allowed to berate everyone here

But only people who actually break the rules of AF get banned for it.

So yeah, I agree 100%

(November 4, 2016 at 10:43 am)Shell B Wrote:

(November 4, 2016 at 10:32 am)Faith No More Wrote: What hypocrisy?

Well, I'm fairly sure it doesn't apply to you, but the hypocrisy of wanting people banned for unpopular opinions/being mean whilst being mean to the people who have unpopular opinions/are mean. If you don't think people should be mean to you/others, you don't get a pass to be mean just because someone's mean. Say I'm in a bar that prides itself on everyone being allowed to swear, but one day, a guy says the mother of all swear words. He says cunt. Sally at the bar doesn't like the word cunt, so she thinks he should be thrown out. She says "Throw the asshole out." If Sally's idea flies, then people who don't like the word asshole can have her thrown out and so on down the line. I don't think it needs that much explaining.

I'm a big fan of the maxim "two wrongs don't make a right."

[emoji106]

(November 3, 2016 at 9:07 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Thank you, Drich.  I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye on any of the "big issues", because I just don't understand the mechanisms behind your thought process.I believe our brains are fundamentally wired differently. But...I do appreciate this attempt to reach out and connect for once, in you own peculiar way, as a person.

I don't agree with really anything most of you think or believe, but I truly understand it. I know the thought process and driving force. which is how and why I can ask questions can't don't answer, and or push buttons that send you off on a rant. (which again is what this thread is about; I pushed too many buttons at once.)

What I'm trying to do is get you/those who want a deeper understanding to that same place. I want you all to ask your own questions not because you can follow some stereotypical system of religious argument, but because you have a very good idea of what is in place and can see a genuine problem with it. So a question is generated.

Because right now (especially with the noobs) it's like you all read from the same script and level the same charges. When ever I go off script/Go past the stereotypical answers, the assumption is I'm the one who doesn't understand the religion/topic or rather I am the confusing or incohearant one. Or I'm the incohearant one.
 

Quote: I know you see your role here as a great enlightener but you've got to keep in mind that when you take morally controversial positions on issues (which can get ugly anyway) with an attitude that you're right and we're all stupidly wrong, you WILL get hatred and contempt versus open-mindedness in response.

Which is often times my primary point.
Look at the rape thread, look at all the different ways people came at me. Some with blood comming out of there eyes, in a rage, others were asking questions. still others yet were just trying to shame and insult me into silence. Then there were people who ran the whole gambit. one post they were my friend, and another they were asking me questions and in the very next page they were looking to lynch me.

Now, compare the 'mob's reaction to my own. In the middle of being hated to the point of inciting a riot I still answered and met each person on their terms. If they had questions to ask I sat down and typed out and answered every question I could, Some multiple times. Some mulitple times in great walls of texts that take all day to write. When people wanted to hate i let them hate, and when they came back around i remain civil. I remained a constant value through out that horrid process. Why? Because I am not emotionally controlled. in any of this I have a higher point or goal I am working towards and understand. That is why i do not breech the rules, and why I was able to keep and retain everyone's individual posts and address each one of you on an indivisual level even if I had to repeat myself 10 times. and why I did not let this whole thing turn into one big hate fest where I was just saying stuff to push buttons. Even though many of you were doing you best to see the topic go down that path.

The topic for all of us was the same. It evoked very strong emotions in me as well, the difference is the emotions do not rule me. I can have a conversation in this forum on a very hot topic and not be consumed by it. I can do this and not break the rules (flamming being one I saw being broken over me on several occasions and said nothing.) So the question then becomes how or why can I do this? many of you asked this and fill in your own answer in that i get off on making you all crazy. In truth the answer is a little deeper than that. To that end I point to The fruit of the Spirit, which are:love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
I have a task to complete, and i am using everything God has given me to do it.

One of the reason I personally want to come here every day is because i sat in your shoes a long time, and 'the church' has nothing to offer you. It sees atheist who grow up in the church and leave as the prodigal son who leaves his father, and their job is to wait for your return... The problem with that doctrine.. They/the church is not the father here, they/we are supposed to be the Shepard Jesus talks about who leaves the 99 sheep in the flock, and seeks out the 1 lost.

Here you have a whole valley side of lost sheep, sheep that will never return on their own because the shepards in charge believe themselves to be the land owner and not a servant. Which means they will rarly do anything to seek out the lost. This i believe is not out of malice, but for the most part are ill equipt. as most of the 'shepards' are boarder line themselves.

God has given me a gift, so i use it to meet you on your terms, i answer your questions, I spend hours researching and read up on stuff because i really do care. I have all but stop typical church life, and devoted everything to you guys. This is my church this is my ministry. Which means like it or not talking to me counts as 'church credit hours.'

I say all of that to say, I want you to see the effort I am putting in here despite the popular narrative that lends it self to a quick dismissal. take the time and step back, take a time out and truly look beyond the words to my actions. how I am interacting not what is being said, look at the principles being discussed. Look for context and content, not just key words that give you the green light to feel rage.

If i remember right You specifically went back and did this very thing on your own in that thread, and it changed your perspective.

At this moment these divisive topics are for people like you too see the paradox that the way you guys think and process information has it's flaws. If you look and any one of my recent thread i have been pushing this point. I have been trying to demonstrate the paradox/hypocrisy the thinking process found in the threads like the rape thread. If you get nothing more out of all of this than that you will be a more fair and balanced person and not so easily swayed by the mob mentality.

Quote: If you genuinely want us to be receptive enough toward you to consider a difficult or uncommon point of view on an emotionally charged subject, you will need to hone a more sensitive approach.  Perhaps drop the antisocial justice warrior style of your posting.  

I think I said this before the topic itself is of little consequence to me.. After all do any of you really think I give two squirts about the higgs boson particle or whether or not someone want to be seen as a victim their whole life? My interest is with the process that makes someone stand and defend the position they take not the position. Now in order for someone to change or fix anything, they must be shown that it is broken. Or I must agitate it and break it before them. The problem? people in general don't know how to look at their thought process apart from their ego, the way, and what they think is essentially who they are. So then to get someone to try and process something different is an assault on them as an individual.

So there will always be a point of contention till you all get what it is I am trying to do.

Quote:For example, it's...unpalatable enough for most of us to consider the idea that the word "rape" has no meaning outside of a court room, but when you serve a rough POV like that up on a silver plate of condescending self-righteousness, NO ONE is going to be willing to even TRY to see where you're coming from.

Again, the topic was secondary to the general need to always identify the subject in the way that provides you or the victim the most comfort. Which is wrong in several ways for those truly looking to put the past in it's place. Apart of letting go is letting go the right to using that word to define any part of you. that was the message but my deliver was the whole point.

Quote:  I'm not trying to get into who was right or wrong in that thread.  God knows, I don't want to talk about it for another a second.  I'm just saying, if you're asking us to consider something from an emotionally or morally uncomfortable position, you have to actually ASK.  Not preach.  Not condemn us for "group-think."  Not call us a hive mind.  You have to be able to see where WE are coming from first, before you can expect the same in return.

But again what if the point of the conversation is to point out the hive mind? the thought process that allows the defenders of pop morality to be the wicked people they think they are attacking, which allows them to do the very thing to a 'victim' that they think is so wrong?

I don't know how many of you could see past the blood coming out of your eyes but I was a victim of rape for an extended period of time, by family members and by a stranger in a public park as a child. sharing that is one of the hardest things i had to do. But, never the less i thought it extremely important so as to demonstrate to you the hypocrisy I see everyday in the processes that determine right and wrong for most of you.

All This shook me to the core. Again I never mentioned anything to my wife, but apparently she knows something is up as she has spent alot of time these past weeks lurking in the forum. this wasn't something I took lightly. i thought about it for a while and decided to commit to whatever it takes in hopes one of you would 'get it.'

Quote:Obviously, you'll continue to engage using whatever approach you see fit.  I assume you aren't really looking for notes on the matter, especially from your run-of-the-mill, hive mind atheist.  But those are my two cents for what they're worth.

I'm always taking notes. I am always asking questions in order to build a better profile for the 'hive mind' and the little off shoot things you all do as individuals.

Quote:Also, you mentioned you're a small business owner.  Was it hard to get a mortgage loan for your home?  My husband (who owns his own business) and I are going to start house-hunting in January (after taxes are filed) and I have no idea what to expect.  

a financial rectal examine.

You need to be a LLC or a Corperation, use to be most banks wouldnt even talk to you with out 5 years of business behind you, now it takes 10 years to be treated like a human being again. (reasonable rates) You need personal tax and YTD, P&L statement and business tax for the last 2 years. (you need to show a good profit, otherwise they will take you worst year and limit you based on that) We also had to show tangible assetts aside from inventory. 5% down on a fha loan and upto 15% on a conventional oh and you need good credit. Plus alot of lube.

USDA loans are no money down but you have to be looking in a rual area, lots of other rules and restrictions.

Quote: You need to be a LLC or a Corperation,

They'd probably be more impressed if you could spell "corporation."

(November 3, 2016 at 7:31 pm)Shell B Wrote: Honestly, I'm with Drich on this one. A bunch of people think he's mean and want him banned. Then? Then, they jump on a relatively unrelated thread that happened because of a few forum fiascos (one of which involved some of the people who wanted him banned) and turn it into a fucking lynch mob about him. If any of you who complained about him and wanted him banned had a thread this immersed in banning you and hating you, you would be either crying in the corner or bitching rather loudly at the staff about it.

Shit, I wanted Staff to enforce their own fucking rule. That's all.

And for the record, I've been banned from much busier forums than this, after a scrum of a dogpile. Didn't complain, didn't make reports. You can think what you wish about me or anyone else who obviously pissed you off in this discussion, but that doesn't mean it's correct, kiddo. That just means it's what you think.

(November 4, 2016 at 11:52 am)Drich Wrote: I don't know how many of you could see past the blood coming out of your eyes but I was a victim of rape for an extended period of time, by family members and by a stranger in a public park as a child. sharing that is one of the hardest things i had to do. But, never the less i thought it extremely important so as to demonstrate to you the hypocrisy I see everyday in the processes that determine right and wrong for most of you.

All This shook me to the core. Again I never mentioned anything to my wife, but apparently she knows something is up as she has spent alot of time these past weeks lurking in the forum. this wasn't something I took lightly. i thought about it for a while and decided to commit to whatever it takes in hopes one of you would 'get it.'

Wait, what??

Did you tell us this in that thread and I missed it or is this the first time you say this on the forum?

Oh, Thump. Untwist your panties. I'm not pissed. I'm having a discussion. I know condescendingly calling me a "kiddo" makes you feel like the older, more level-headed person in this exchange, but it's just not so, except for the old part. I'm fairly relaxed about it because, believe it or not, some of us can manage to see this as a discussion forum. At most, I'll get a chuckle at how easy it is to get a rise out of you and then go about my day as usual.

Honestly, I can't imagine why you would be banned from any forum. You're such a rational, pleasant, easygoing person.