(November 5, 2016 at 7:21 am)Napoléon Wrote:

(November 4, 2016 at 10:13 pm)Aroura Wrote: Right, he's not political elite, he's just plain elite. The Elie of the elite.

You're just flat out missing the point. Whether Trump actually is the elite or not is irrelevent. In the eyes of most American voters he does not represent them. He represents the millions who feel as though they haven't had a voice for decades.

The parallels between this and Brexit are the same. There is an entire class of people who feel let down by 'the establishment', and whether it's self destructive or not they're going to vote for what will be the biggest possible FUCK YOU to that such establishment.

Okay, I understand now. You and your kind are basically children throwing a temper tantrum. As such, you are living completely in the moment, blind and unconcerned about how in fucking the establishment, you are fucking yourselves - and the rest of us. You are irresponsible and immature and don't deserve the right to vote. You're also public enemies. You're not only a bunch of fucking idiots, you're dangerous.

(November 5, 2016 at 6:39 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(November 4, 2016 at 7:43 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: He's on record saying that our American alliances need to be "reviewed".

I think to be fair that was more about looking at military spend in NATO, where effectively only the US and he UK (I think a couple of other smaller states too) spend the minimum % of GDP required by NATO membership (if I recall at least).

.... and he was very clear that if that state of affairs didn't change, he would be willing to denounce the treaty.

If Napoleon wants to think that that is cherishing the "special relationship", hey, that's his business. But I don't think it is.

(November 5, 2016 at 8:03 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Also as a member of the military, Mrs Clinton's statements on Benghazi and the cluster there and her "what does it matter now" comments have never sat well with me. I also abhor her condescending attitude when questioned about her actions on the email situation.

You realize it was the Pentagon that said no-go on that one, right?

(November 5, 2016 at 11:35 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(November 5, 2016 at 8:03 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Also as a member of the military, Mrs Clinton's statements on Benghazi and the cluster there and her "what does it matter now" comments have never sat well with me. I also abhor her condescending attitude when questioned about her actions on the email situation.

You realize it was the Pentagon that said no-go on that one, right?

I am referring solely to her comments.

(November 5, 2016 at 7:13 am)Napoléon Wrote:

(November 5, 2016 at 7:05 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Also, I notice you're willing to brand B. Clinton as a rapist despite the fact that he was never formally charged, but you are okay to overlook the rape allegation against Trump that is currently under investigation.

And likewise you're a hypocrite because you'll go on about these allegations against Trump as though they're anything substantial, when the ones against B Clinton are far more worrying.

Another example of you resorting to insults whenever someone disagrees with you.

LFC is far from a hypocrite actually, she's lovely and you're an asshole.

Remember folks, Napoléon' is someone who has openly said he'd rather you called him a cunt than think his opinions are stupid. He'd rather you attack him than his opinions. Kind of ironic for him to accuse others of having a problem with differing opinions after an admission like that isn't it? This is why I laughed at him on this thread and this is why I had it out with him when he had a problem with it. He's made it clear before that he'd rather people attacked him than his opinions but then when they do that he accuses them of having a problem with differing opinions. So, with doublethink like that, trying to have it both ways, so others are damned by him if they do and damned by him if they don't: it is patently clear that he is the hypocrite here.

My emphasis.

(November 5, 2016 at 11:36 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote:

(November 5, 2016 at 11:35 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You realize it was the Pentagon that said no-go on that one, right?

I am referring solely to her comments.

FYI I also still hold the 3E7X1 AFSC from my former life. I understand she did not have OPCON or TACON of our forces, let alone any direct say in the hold or dispatch of the QRF. I am merely stating her words about "what does it matter at this point" do not set well with myself or any of our military brethren.

It matters to me my friend.

(November 5, 2016 at 10:25 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote:

(November 5, 2016 at 1:24 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I think you're crediting his listening skills a touch too much, myself. He doesn't seem very able to handle contrary views or criticism.

I agree with you somewhat.  He does not appear to handle criticism well on the fly and during the debates. However behind closed doors I do think he enlists quality advisors and does listen and consider their advice.  He is after all a successful businessman.  

Does this opinion of yours have any basis in fact? I don't consider a string of bankruptcies the hallmark of a successful businessman. I don't know who his advisors are in the business world, but it doesn't seem to me that their advice has been all that hot.

(November 5, 2016 at 10:25 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: As a retired USAF Firefighter I cannot fathom how you could consider a vote for Clinton.  Not that you are, I do not know whom you are supporting for President.

I will consider a vote for Clinton if and only if Texas is close enough that my vote could help keep Trump from gaining our EC votes. If the state remains solidly Trump, then I'll vote Johnson as a protest vote, because both major parties need to be told to go fuck themselves with a crosscut saw. This has nothing to do with my being a veteran. It has a lot to do with my reading and understanding of history.

And by the way, I'm not retired from the military; I did my four and got out.

(November 5, 2016 at 11:45 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote:

(November 5, 2016 at 11:36 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: I am referring solely to her comments.

FYI I also still hold the 3E7X1 AFSC from my former life.  I understand she did not have OPCON or TACON of our forces, let alone any direct say in the hold or dispatch of the QRF.  I am merely stating her words about "what does it matter at this point" do not set well with myself or any of our military brethren.  

It matters to me my friend.

<shrug> You can vote based on that. I generally vote based on what I think is best for the entire country, not my little feelings.

Thanks for serving.

(November 5, 2016 at 11:11 am)AFTT47 Wrote:

(November 5, 2016 at 7:21 am)Napoléon Wrote: You're just flat out missing the point. Whether Trump actually is the elite or not is irrelevent. In the eyes of most American voters he does not represent them. He represents the millions who feel as though they haven't had a voice for decades.

The parallels between this and Brexit are the same. There is an entire class of people who feel let down by 'the establishment', and whether it's self destructive or not they're going to vote for what will be the biggest possible FUCK YOU to that such establishment.

Okay, I understand now. You and your kind are basically children throwing a temper tantrum. As such, you are living completely in the moment, blind and unconcerned about how in fucking the establishment, you are fucking yourselves - and the rest of us. You are irresponsible and immature and don't deserve the right to vote. You're also public enemies. You're not only a bunch of fucking idiots, you're dangerous.

Thankfully, he cannot vote here.

(November 5, 2016 at 11:36 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote:

(November 5, 2016 at 11:35 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You realize it was the Pentagon that said no-go on that one, right?

I am referring solely to her comments.

Well, I vote based on policy positions and their merits, myself.