(June 15, 2011 at 9:47 pm)Cinjin Wrote: For those of you Americans who supported Obama in 2008:
Are you going to be voting for Obama in 2012 regardless of who the Republicans nominate? Will you even consider a Republican?

(In the spirit of good-faith and for the record, I don't subscribe to any party. I vote with the issues I support. I have no loyalty to any party whatsoever.)

I'm not american, but considering how far right the two main parties are i would definitly vote for the one that is less far right just to spite the one that is more far right

Not all republicans are evil:

RON PAUL! WOOO LIBERTARIANS FTW WOO!!!

(June 16, 2011 at 9:38 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: I live in Kentucky, a state so solidly Republican that we're permanently colored red on all the election result maps. Literally, before any other states are called, you typically see Kentucky lit up red.

Wow. A state more red than the stupidvilles of South Carolina (home state) and Georgia (current residence). Amazing.

(June 16, 2011 at 9:38 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: I campaigned door-to-door for Obama in 08. He turned out to be all talk and no action. That spineless political coward who threw us under the bus for the last four years won't be getting my vote this time around.

I too was inspired by the man and a little let down, but you can't say he did nothing. He got health care reform passed, the stimulus passed, tracked down Osama, ended the war in Iraq and all the while haggled by Republicans who voted "no" at every turn simply out of spite.

(June 16, 2011 at 9:38 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: I've really started to wonder if liberals boycotted the election, let the Republicans win and teach the Democrats a hard lesson, hard enough that they learn not to take us for granted anymore. It would suck for four years but this would be like chemotherapy for the party's spine.

Sounds like a good plan in theory, but I don't think it would work in practice since it would be hard enough to get that many people to agree on anything much less get them to en masse take action (or in this case, no action) ... unless another figure like the candidate Obama surfaced to inspire us once again.

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(June 15, 2011 at 9:47 pm)Cinjin Wrote: Are you going to be voting for Obama in 2012 regardless of who the Republicans nominate? Will you even consider a Republican?

Probably won't consider a Republican since the entire Republican program runs counter to my political ideology and is an adversary of progress, as it has been for a very long time in this country (Previously, in the form of the old Democrats of the 19th century. Republicans in the mid-19th century were analogous to modern Democrats in many ways). I won't automatically vote for Obama and will consider a third party candidate although I know they have no chance in hell of making a dint American psyche.

I have been toying with the idea of not voting as my vote, to not propagate this two party system we have that leaves us in a perpetual rut. When that happens, however, you are just considered a non-voter which is why I think there should be an 'I vote for no one,' option on the ballot. Ultimately though, my fear of conservative assholes outweighs my want to reform the system, so I vote democrat, not as a positive vote for the democrat, but a negative vote for the republican.

DeistPaladin Wrote:I've really started to wonder if liberals boycotted the election, let the Republicans win and teach the Democrats a hard lesson, hard enough that they learn not to take us for granted anymore. It would suck for four years but this would be like chemotherapy for the party's spine. I don't say this with a song in my heart but something has to be done to arrest the Dems strategy of running further and further to the right. It would depend on how bad the Republican candidate is.

Supposedly they learned this lesson from 2000 to 2006 but apparently they forgot it quite quickly.

Quote:I've really started to wonder if liberals boycotted the election, let the Republicans win and teach the Democrats a hard lesson, hard enough that they learn not to take us for granted anymore.

You can teach a child a hard lesson by letting it drown in the pool after telling it not to go in there.


Some hard lessons are simply too hard. The thought of one of these republicolibertarianazis running this country further into the ground is simply unacceptable.

(June 16, 2011 at 1:18 pm)everythingafter Wrote: I too was inspired by the man and a little let down, but you can't say he did nothing. He got health care reform passed, the stimulus passed, tracked down Osama, ended the war in Iraq and all the while haggled by Republicans who voted "no" at every turn simply out of spite.

I give Obama credit for giving the green light to nab Bin Laden. I'll explain why I don't think I owe him anything else.

Health care reform was botched due to piss poor leadership and Obama's need to be loved by everyone. In his style of premature compromise, before even arriving at the negotiation table, he gave away single payer hoping, apparently, to score points with such a magnanimous concession. "Medicare-for-all" would have been an easy sell or, at the very least, easy to understand. After giving that away, he followed the act by giving away the public option. Then he gave away the Medicare buy in. One compromise led to another and what we were left with as a few band-aids.

As much as he congratulated himself, HE did not get health care reform done. WE, the voters, got it done by giving him such massive majorities in both houses that he couldn't lose, despite his best efforts.

Same is true for the economic stimulus. It was watered down with premature compromises and what we got was a weaker recovery. Again, HE didn't accomplish it. WE accomplished it.

The "end" of the Iraq War still left us with 50,000 troops there.

At the end of the day, he took the massive majorities we gave him, squandered it all on his pursuit of "bipartisanship" and threw us under the bus in the process. Now he wants me to campaign for him again? Fuck you, Barrack. Fuck you very much.

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(June 16, 2011 at 3:52 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I've really started to wonder if liberals boycotted the election, let the Republicans win and teach the Democrats a hard lesson, hard enough that they learn not to take us for granted anymore.

You can teach a child a hard lesson by letting it drown in the pool after telling it not to go in there.


Some hard lessons are simply too hard. The thought of one of these republicolibertarianazis running this country further into the ground is simply unacceptable.

I hear you and it's a catch-22 that liberals are stuck in.

Democratic strategy is to run to the right, chasing the ever-moving "center". They can use us and then throw us under the bus after they win. In 2010, they weren't even polite about it any longer. Barrak bitch-slapped us, telling us to "buck up, you whiners". "Who else ya gonna vote for, bitch?" is their attitude. The Hell of it is, they're right.

So our choices are to vote Democrat and continue the cycle of abuse, watching them continue to run further right or not vote and let the Republicans win (they're also continuing to run further to the right).

Quote:let the Republicans win (they're also continuing to run further to the right).

They are already further to the right than Attila the Hun. This can't go on.

As a Democrat myself, I look forward to watching the Republican contenders beat each other up vying for the nomination. I hope Palin runs for just that reason. I'd love to watch the other Republicans rip into her. Her responses would be comedy gold!

(June 16, 2011 at 5:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:let the Republicans win (they're also continuing to run further to the right).

They are already further to the right than Attila the Hun. This can't go on.

Every time we say that, they prove us wrong.

Consider how W Bush is now a moderate by comparison.

Which is why the democrats must actively oppose them....and hope that enough independents understand that if they don't get on board real soon these fuckwit fascists will soon reduce everyone to serfdom.