My final conversion from Christianity to Atheism occured not too long ago. There were many foreshadowing occurances that led to me ultimately seeing the truth. Many believe I am quiet too young to make this decision. Many believe I'm doing it just to "be different" or "to beg attention". But there arbitrary fallacies are sickening. I will only give a FEW of the things that lead me to the state that I'm in today. Since birth, I had been a run-of-the-mill Christian who often tried to use "god" as a crutch to compensate for my weak-minded nature. I often prayed (begging would be a more appropriate term) whenever I was in need. It may have been programmed in me from the beginning, but just the thought of an "all-seeing" "all-hearing" being always raised great skepticism. Then one day, call it my "judgement day" if you will, I just sat in my bed and pondered. It was a moderately difficult process to logically destroy the foundations that the church had built under me as a young child. I don't want to make this too long due to the fact that I doubt many will read this. I want to end this by putting forward one of my logical arguments to the non-existence of "god". If there where such a being as god, with all the power he supposedly possesses: why would he create an entire race (a very violent and spiteful race) not only to bask in their glory, but also to pass judgement. Thank you, this is an amazing forum.

Welcome to the light! And no, you're not too young to make that decision. I was 12 when I realized I didn't believe in Christianity, which is about the age that someone starts to have their own religious identity.

It is strange that people believe that God created us just to pass judgement on us, but my biggest problem has always been the fact that God even cares what I think in the first place.

I believe you need to use more paragraphs

Never too young to make a decision. Never too green to make a decision either. Never even too large or small to make a decision.

Welcome, and I have difficulty caring about whether someone becomes a Christian or an atheist or a Buddhist or a Psilon... wait... I'll actually kill them if they become a Psilon.

Hi. Paragraphs are beautiful. You should use more of them

Exactly! It's really just as simple as proposing the question "Why?" Such as: When "god" was making us, WHY would he even implant the ability to be violent? WHY even create such a thing as war, poverty, murder, rape, etc. ?? WHY sacrifice your son to cleanse a retched people, when you could've just created a perfect people in the first place?

And thank you Aerzia! I wasn't even paying attention haha, you're right: paragraphs are quite beautiful

(June 21, 2011 at 3:35 am)TheYoungAtheist Wrote: Exactly! It's really just as simple as proposing the question "Why?" Such as: When "god" was making us, WHY would he even implant the ability to be violent? WHY even create such a thing as war, poverty, murder, rape, etc. ?? WHY sacrifice your son to cleanse a retched people, when you could've just created a perfect people in the first place?

I counter: why would he NOT?

Quote:And thank you Aerzia! I wasn't even paying attention haha, you're right: paragraphs are quite beautiful

Poor people... L'sigh... so broke they cannot even pay attention

I pity them,

Well....true,but if all this war and poverty is all apart of some divine plan: I MYSELF have yet to see the significance of such things.

Hey there young one!

Believe me, it's so much better for you to make the decision at a tender age than having (in a worst case scenario) a middle-age crisis about your religion and whole life.

(June 21, 2011 at 4:22 am)TheYoungAtheist Wrote: Well....true,but if all this war and poverty is all apart of some divine plan: I MYSELF have yet to see the significance of such things.

Such things as a divine plan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWILhrSzw5o

I'm not a schemer.

Such things as war, poverty, rape, and murder. I just don't understand there purpose. If there where a divine purpose, I really don't see there rolls in it.

What's most important is you arrived at the decision yourself. Regardless of whether you held on to your old beliefs or cast them aside for new enlightenment, the important thing is your decision is not based on "someone told you so."

I don't know about the weak-minded part; that phrase has been used by all sides of the theistic debate to paint all the others with an ad hominen attack. (You don't think/believe as I do; you must be weak-minded, deluded, &c. It seems that using the non-judgemental words "You may be wrong" aren't insulting enough).

Many religious persons could hardly be classified as weak-minded; not a few atheists could be classified as "crackpots." (That is why I am on this forum now; the last one I was on could best be described as an "atheist E-tent revival.")

But, whatever position you've arrived at is best when it is by your own thoughts on the matter; likewise the ability to shift your position (as you have done) should it be shown to be inadequate.

I am not an atheist, so I don't suppose my opinion counts for much on this matter, but it seems to me a "thinking atheist" questions anything that smacks of appeal to authority, or ad hominen, or any other logical fallacy, including their own position. If atheism is a rational and reasonable position, then it should be able to stand up to questioning and scrutiny as a valid position.

That you have applied such scrutiny to your beliefs and found them wanting is good; as long as you always question and make your own mind up about such matters you probably won't go wrong.

James