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My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
#41
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
" Scripture tells us that creation alone is more than enough evidence for man to believe God exists, so it is man's fault if he still does not believe (Romans 1)."

You mean the scripture that tells us "creation" actually took place?

God created the universe -> The existence of the Universe is proof that ->God created the universe -> The existence of the Universe is proof that.....

You're speaking as though scriptures position on something has a bearing on its reality. I brought up the Germ Theory of Disease as an example where scripture (apparently) has no position. Does that have an effect on the Germ Theory of Disease?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#42
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
(June 29, 2011 at 4:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote:


Are you saying scripture does not teach God works in Covenants and Dispensations? If you are, then you are arguing something Christians do not believe. God's active revelation has ceased (sorry Mormons), and he now reconciles Himself to man through His son.


(June 29, 2011 at 5:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote:


A person can arrive at the conclusion that Creation took place even apart from scripture, so that was not a circular argument. Not really following you on the Germ Theory point, I will admit.

[Image: zksjet.jpg]
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#43
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
That at least one person came to the conclusion of creation is obvious, someone had to write the fairy tale to begin with. Are you attempting to argue that people can come to the idea of creation today without referring to the scripture that proposes creation...(.we are talking about biblical creation here aren't we, or do you profess the absolute truth of other cultures creation myths as well?)

You don't get my germ theory point, no problem.

I mentioned that it would be a simple thing for a god to reveal themselves.

You countered that you do not believe god wishes to reveal itself in such a manner. Your justification in this was that the position that god could/would reveal itself to humanity in the manner that I proposed was not supported by scripture.

I have stated that the Germ Theory of Disease has no support in scripture, implying that a position or theory is not dependent upon confirmation in scripture to be true, and that further, confirmation in scripture does not confer any additional element of truth upon a position or theory.

It may be interesting to note that the sect known as Christian Science actually does believe that scripture has a position on the Germ Theory of Disease, and that the position the scriptures take is contradictory to this theory. I cannot find this contradiction in scripture personally, so I have simply stated that scripture has no position. Perhaps a lurking Christian Scientist could inform us all.

Have I cleared that up for you?

almost forgot, I'm not only arguing things that christians don't believe, I'm arguing against nearly everything christians DO believe.


I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#44
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
(June 29, 2011 at 7:16 pm)Rhythm Wrote:


Thanks for the clarification, yes that does make more sense now.

To your first point, a person should be able to arrive at the existence of a Creator by observing the world around him alone. This actually happens quite often, this will then prompt the person to turn to scripture to learn more about this Creator. So scripture is saying that atheism is never justified because everyone should believe God exists because of His natural revelation, those who suppress this truth will be held accountable.
As to the germ theory point, I think we kind of missed each other on that one. I never said that all knowledge should be exclusively derived from scripture. I was saying that if we are having a theological discussion about the God of the Bible we should discuss the God of the Bible. In order to do this, we have to look at His scriptural revelation to avoid discussing something that does not pertain to the God of the Bible. I felt you were making a point about God that really did not pertain to Him was all.


[Image: zksjet.jpg]
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#45
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
You are absolutely correct. I leave it to you to define what the god of the bible is. This will prevent you from shifting goalposts if you find your position is less sturdy than you originally believed it to be.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#46
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
(June 29, 2011 at 7:41 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You are absolutely correct. I leave it to you to define what the god of the bible is. This will prevent you from shifting goalposts if you find your position is less sturdy than you originally believed it to be.

No need to move any goalposts, my position is sturdy enough :-)

[Image: zksjet.jpg]
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#47
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
and that position is?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#48
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
(June 29, 2011 at 7:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: and that position is?

Now I am confused, did you ask me to do something and I missed it?

[Image: zksjet.jpg]
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#49
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
(June 29, 2011 at 7:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: and that position is?

"Goddidit."


Quote:Scripture tells us that creation alone is more than enough evidence for man to believe God exists,



Scripture is the first refuge of the ignoramus.

-- Pat Condell
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#50
RE: My change to Atheism from Christianity (I'm 14)
No, Minimalist, the quote you've posted is a cosmological argument, which he has stated is not, in fact, his position. That particular piece of wisdom is just something that fell out of his mouth, not his position.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



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