Quote:Teen angst and aggression is the same be it property destruction or physical violence.

No. It. Is. Not.

If it were, then spraying-painting 'Fuck The Police' on the wall of a train platform would be the same as torturing a mentally disabled man.

Boru

(January 7, 2017 at 10:36 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(January 7, 2017 at 10:26 am)Brian37 Wrote: Another point I'd like to make is that could have been me as a kid and teen. I see myself in what they did, the sheep mentality wanting cheap attention just to fit in. It could have been far worse for me, if I had fallen in with physically violent teens, or violent racists. There is no excuse for what they did. But as I said, I see myself in them. Teen angst and aggression is the same be it property destruction or physical violence. It still amounts to peer pressure, lack of family oversight and looking for belonging. It is the same social instability that leads white racists to join gangs, same lack of self awareness by humans that lead them to shack themselves up with violent religious sects. 

All social structures from family to community to entire ideologies can become quite destructive and aggressive when there is no awareness of conditions or understanding of those conditions.

Sounds like excuses to me.

Bullshit

Understanding human behavior from a psychological perspective IS NOT excuse making. Just like if you beat the shit out of a kid as a parent growing up it is very far more likely to become an adult who will do that to their own kids. It is also why we know that both child molestation and sexual assault of adults are both crimes of opportunity and not sexual preference. Those teens did not do it because they were black, they did it for the same reasons I did destructive things. 

You subject any human or group of humans to similar conditions our actions on average are going to look similar. Any psychiatrist or psychologist can tell you that toddlers not subject to the sell of tribalism of the parents, if left in a room together with no indoctrination, will form their own social structures.

(January 7, 2017 at 11:13 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(January 7, 2017 at 10:36 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Sounds like excuses to me.

Bullshit

Understanding human behavior from a psychological perspective IS NOT excuse making. Just like if you beat the shit out of a kid as a parent growing up it is very far more likely to become an adult who will do that to their own kids. It is also why we know that both child molestation and sexual assault of adults are both crimes of opportunity and not sexual preference. Those teens did not do it because they were black, they did it for the same reasons I did destructive things. 

You subject any human or group of humans to similar conditions our actions on average are going to look similar. Any psychiatrist or psychologist can tell you that toddlers not subject to the sell of tribalism of the parents, if left in a room together with no indoctrination, will form their own social structures.

Still excuses for the individual(s) not to know right from wrong. Or is it that they did know, but didn't care?

(January 7, 2017 at 11:17 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(January 7, 2017 at 11:13 am)Brian37 Wrote: Bullshit

Understanding human behavior from a psychological perspective IS NOT excuse making. Just like if you beat the shit out of a kid as a parent growing up it is very far more likely to become an adult who will do that to their own kids. It is also why we know that both child molestation and sexual assault of adults are both crimes of opportunity and not sexual preference. Those teens did not do it because they were black, they did it for the same reasons I did destructive things. 

You subject any human or group of humans to similar conditions our actions on average are going to look similar. Any psychiatrist or psychologist can tell you that toddlers not subject to the sell of tribalism of the parents, if left in a room together with no indoctrination, will form their own social structures.

Still excuses for the individual(s) not to know right from wrong. Or is it that they did know, but didn't care?

No it is not, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I'd suggest talk to the experts instead of buying bullshit simplistic Judge Judy nonsense. T

Them caring or not caring is not the  issue long term dumbass. How do WE as a society foster long term conditions that reduce events like that. If you are unwilling to think long term, then you are as uncaring about your own house. It would be the same mentality as refusing to ignore your check engine light. 

My empathy in saying "that could have been me" isn't excuse making. It is saying when I lacked social structure myself I look back and wish someone had stepped in, not just for me, but for those I hurt. There was a time when I didn't care and that is why I did what I did.

(January 7, 2017 at 9:16 am)Brian37 Wrote: Yep it was a hate crime, but which sect of our population in America do you think has more hate groups on average? Southern Poverty Law Center I do believe has a list of hundreds if not thousands. That list had a boom upon hummmmmm some guy from "Kenya" about to leave the White House. And the amount of assaults on LGBT and minorities has also gone up upon orange asshat's election. 

So what? We know all that. Simply because there are more anti-minority hate groups is no reason to minimize the atrocious behavior in the OP's video.

(January 7, 2017 at 12:05 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(January 7, 2017 at 9:16 am)Brian37 Wrote: Yep it was a hate crime, but which sect of our population in America do you think has more hate groups on average? Southern Poverty Law Center I do believe has a list of hundreds if not thousands. That list had a boom upon hummmmmm some guy from "Kenya" about to leave the White House. And the amount of assaults on LGBT and minorities has also gone up upon orange asshat's election. 

So what? We know all that. Simply because there are more anti-minority hate groups is no reason to minimize the atrocious behavior in the OP's video.

^This.  Completely and totally this.  What I said, but you said it better.

Boru

(January 5, 2017 at 9:48 am)Napoléon Wrote: I wonder if MTV can tell the victim what he did to deserve this.

MTV is trash

(January 7, 2017 at 12:05 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(January 7, 2017 at 9:16 am)Brian37 Wrote: Yep it was a hate crime, but which sect of our population in America do you think has more hate groups on average? Southern Poverty Law Center I do believe has a list of hundreds if not thousands. That list had a boom upon hummmmmm some guy from "Kenya" about to leave the White House. And the amount of assaults on LGBT and minorities has also gone up upon orange asshat's election. 

So what? We know all that. Simply because there are more anti-minority hate groups is no reason to minimize the atrocious behavior in the OP's video.

NO nobody is minimizing or excusing. You are actually perpetuating it by ignoring the inequity.

How do you prevent long term from blacks or whites falling into bad company? Accepting that poverty and law affect minorities at a far higher rate, isn't trying to sweep their hate under the rug one bit. This is what blacks Know and far too many whites ignore. And no, it isn't whites trying to guilt trip other whites or excuse blacks. It is simply stating an average and by looking at that sample as a long term condition, you can address it.

We have this discussion as a nation every time an unarmed black ends up dead by cop. It is why that white rich kid got away with killing 4 in the drunk driving initially with a slap on the wrist only to flee to Mexico. If that had been a group of white teens beating up a black mentally disabled person, sure everyone would also right fully be outraged and call that a hate crime. But long term ON AVERAGE are not going to be punished equally ON AVERAGE. And our current climate of revenge justice simply puts the perps in a violent meat grinder prison in any case, and does nothing to create conditions that when these prisoners get out, wont repeat again. 

If we all like to say we hate racism, and none of us want it to exist, you are still stuck with the conditions and should still consider the average treatments and inequities, otherwise you wont solve those problems long term.

Boy, Tibs. I think your mic drop really stopped that line of questioning.

(January 7, 2017 at 9:39 am)Brian37 Wrote: Huh? It was a hate crime means I jumped the shark? 

No Brian. You have jumped the shark because no matter the topic of conversation you belch forth some anti-capitalist bitch.

The rest of your inane reply is quixotic; essentially arguing with yourself.