Hi everyone, I would like to present some points for atheists to consider and I trust the exchanges will be thoughtful and friendly. 


There are some very serious problems for atheists to consider;  

1)    R. Dawkins wrote the Universe has "no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference." Dawkins, R., River out of Eden, Weidenfeld & Nicholson, London, p. 133, 1995.
        Why do atheists constantly use words like religion is evil, atheism good, when these terms are meaningless in a Godless Universe?

2) If you were really an atheist, you would realize that we are ALL just rearranged pond scum and life is just a set of random Meaningless events in a random Meaningless Universe. 
    So as an atheist, why try so hard "Meaningfully" explaining  that in this utterly Meaningless Universe there's no deity?

    a) Possible responses maybe; Religion is dangerous and threatens our survival; BUT in a Godless Universe, why is humanity's survival better than extinction? If humans nuke one another out of existence, what difference will that make to the Universe?? 

3) Atheism; The Universe Caused itself, no First Cause needed; this requires blind faith and is counter-intuitive; very much the same as what atheists accuse religious people of, seems hypocritical doesn't it??

4) The Big Bang Theory is Full of Fudge factors that are an embarrassment to Cosmologists many of whom admit the theory is popular because it is well funded, but how is that an objective search for truth? 


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5)   Atheistic science these days is so Dogmatically wedded to Materialism, it cannot even begin to tell us what Consciousness is, the most basic principle of human existence. Doesn't it seem hypocritical that Atheism is so dogmatic?

 6)  And BTW atheism has led to some pretty strange philosophies, like that of the Church of Euthanasia; Save the Planet, Kill Yourself! How can Atheists counter such "logic"?

As a Christian I have experienced that no Atheist on earth has any convincing arguments to these most basic questions which I believe only the Christian religion can answer. I'll be honest, believing in Atheism would be so much easier in life because you can do whatever you want and think there is no consequences, but Ahteism seems so incredibly counter intuitive, that to even begin to take it seriously, one has to suspend all logic.

Thoughts? 
(Again please keep it friendly, Ive had too much abuse from atheists already just for asking simple questions, and that just seems further proof to me Atheism is a delusion).

Before I even try to pick apart that list, I will point out that you seem to be picking apart a lot of things that aren't reliant on atheism. Atheism is just a disbelief in any god. That's it. Atheists may go beyond that in their own stances as well, but that's all extra.

I throw that point out there a lot, but only because it seems like few theists understand that.

Of course I also have issue with your arguments beyond that, but it's good to get that foundation in place first.

I could feed a herd of buffalo for a month with all the straw men in this post.

I don't even try to pick that list apart, since it's from the handbook on atheism for christians 1.01. Zero understanding and the repetition of standard and often before heard talking points. The only thing amazin me is that every month or so another one's dropping by with the same old, same old and feels as if they just invented the wheel.

(January 17, 2017 at 5:34 pm)Pulse Wrote: There are some very serious problems for atheists to consider;  

...

There is one very serious problem for theists to consider:

No theist can make a demonstration of the existence of their god/gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLIerfXuZ4

http://atheistforums.org/forum-11.html

Atheism is just rejection of theistic claims. There are irrational atheists, just as there are some theists who are ok with evolution and cosmology. The two are not related.

Moving on.

1) Ignoring that Dawkins is not the atheist pope, there are reasons that we often say religion does bad things. Just because our lives don't matter in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean that we can't form a moral philosophy that helps us categorize things as either good or evil. It might not matter to the universe, but it matters TO US. And really that's all that matters. We can build perfectly good moral philosophies which would help us make those determinations.

2) This one was worded poorly, but I think I understand what you were trying to say. See above, it doesn't matter to the universe if we all die out and we all believe stupid shit and hurt each other. But it does matter to us. I honestly don't care what you believe, except that people tend to use their beliefs to change their actions. And while it might not matter in the grand scheme, I am a selfish creature who wants to live in the best world possible.

3) I don't know how the universe came to be. That does not mean I get to assume any damn placeholder I want. I need a positive reason to believe in something specific. Until then, I simply state that I don't know and be done with it. And most atheists I have heard will admit that they don't know.

4) I'm educated in science, but not a cosmologist. I know only that that the expansion of the universe from a super dense point is supported by the evidence we currently have. We don't know what happened in the first yoctosecond but after that we have a fairly good working model. And that's ok. People much smarter than I are working on that first itty bit of time. We aren't coming to these conclusions because that's just what's popular. We've been circling and circling and this seems to be what we are closing in on. If it is found to be wrong tomorrow, then I will accept that.

5) I don't believe that there is such a thing as "consciousness" or a soul. I think it's just a very complicated set of algorithms. But let's put that aside. Atheism is simply one position on one thing. There is nothing else. There are atheists who are 9/11 truthers, and atheists who are Buddhists, and atheists who believe the president is a secret shape-shifting reptile. As such how can it be reasonably claimed that atheism is "dogmatic" when we can't agree on anything except that theists haven't met their burden of proof?

6) Each atheist has their own philosophy which they have to build for themselves. Some are good, some are bad. Each idea has to be addressed by itself so its merit can be determined.

If you think that your answers are better ok, why? And can you convince me of that?

I have never thought that being an atheist allowed me to do "whatever I wanted." In fact, as many others will point out I am sure, quite the opposite. Christianity gave me an excuse to behave badly. I was a sinner, I couldn't help being bad. Just acknowledge how horrible you were and trust in Jesus. But as an atheist I have no excuse. I can be a good person, and I have to be accountable to myself for it.

Maybe the reason you received abuse for these questions is that they're ridiculous and uninformed.

Food for thought.

When I see some convincing testable evidence for a god or gods I will stop being an atheist. So far I see no more evidence for gods as I see evidence for goblins, the tooth fairy and the monster under the bed.

1. The terms are meaningless to the universe as a whole, but they hold a great deal of meaning for humans.

2. 'Meaningless' is a question-begging term. Is your life meaningless? Mine certainly isn't. But you make a fair point. In my experience, atheists go to great and (admittedly) sometimes high-decibel lengths to explain atheism. The seems to occur because theists don't really grasp what atheism is.

3. No, there is nothing hypocritical in theories regarding a self-caused universe. The hypocrisy seems to lie more in the theistic claim that, 'Everything has a cause. Except, I mean, the God I happen to believe in.'

4. Yes. The BBT is popular because it is well-funded. This must be why cosmologists drive Lamborghinis.

5. Natachan did this so well, I don't think I need to add anything.

6. The Church of Euthanasia is a religious organization. This one's on you, pal.

Boru

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Is it too early to call shit-and-run on this one?

Boru