(February 19, 2017 at 3:02 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: I really wish people would stop saying "Alternative Facts" and call it for what it is: lies.

It's not as exciting I grant you - a thread named "Trump lies again" - but is rather influential in halting Trumps Social Injustice Warriors from redefining language into their own trigger-safe, safe space-friendly version.

It's alternative facts like alternative medicine.

If it was really medicine it would just be called medicine.

If it was really facts it would just be called facts.

So I'd really love for Scooby to come in and tell us why Sweden is putting the same "spin" on this story?
None of this is funny. Calling lies "alternative" facts and real news "fake" is not funny, because enough people believe it to cause serious harm.

(February 19, 2017 at 3:11 pm)Aroura Wrote: Calling lies "alternative" facts and real news "fake" is not funny, because enough people believe it to cause serious harm.

They would believe it if they were called lies, since the ones telling the lies aren't perceived as liars. The really sad fact is that people don't check what they hear if it suits their preconceived notions.

The average person and everyone dumber is all vulnerable to obfuscation unfortunately

I'd say it's basically easy to obfuscate anyone who doesn't even know what "obfuscate" means, lol.

I tell them to all eschew obfuscation and then I realize they can't eschew the obfuscation because I'm obfuscating them with words like "eschew" and "obfuscation".

Actually... using language the average person doesn't understand to confuse and control them.... isn't that.... isn't that pretty much the beginnings of 1984?!

Yes Hammy. So, it turns out George Orwell misspelled 2017.

He and Huxley should have collaborated, together they knew the future.

(February 19, 2017 at 3:30 pm)Aroura Wrote: Yes Hammy. So, it turns out George Orwell misspelled 2017.

He and Huxley should have collaborated, together they knew the future.

Different things. We live in 1984 since 9/11 and all the ensuing bills and legislations. All it takes is a government taking full advantage of all the already existing tools.

Oh well, at least Orbital are back this year.

(It's a band I like).

---

If he only had a brain.

(February 19, 2017 at 3:15 pm)abaris Wrote:

(February 19, 2017 at 3:11 pm)Aroura Wrote: Calling lies "alternative" facts and real news "fake" is not funny, because enough people believe it to cause serious harm.

They would believe it if they were called lies, since the ones telling the lies aren't perceived as liars. The really sad fact is that people don't check what they hear if it suits their preconceived notions.

I could not disagree more and I take issue with your self-destructive nihilism.

The first thing any fascist (communists also did this) uprising has required is redefining language. If no one is certain what words mean then it can easily mean what you want it to mean.

"Alternative facts" plays right into Orwells writings with the bonus of realizing Orwell criticized Britain for its existing political controls on speech and thought, not an theoretical threat but the encroaching march of eroded personal rights.

While it seems strangely ironic that those who shout all the time about Obama ruling by fiat are all too happy to embrace Trump ruling by fiat, it is quite understandable - if you're ruled by a dictator, then the only thing that truly matters is getting your dictator in place, not abolishing and ostracizing would-be dictators.

It's a sad reflection of Class/Caste/Ideology divides where tribalism dominates.

Stop their definitions and they will have a hard time.

Give them their definitions, their safe spaces and they will only use it to attack the other. They must not be allowed to delineate who the "other" is past a critical point or all may be lost. Their paralysis depends upon Friend-or-Foe being still too muddy.

(February 19, 2017 at 3:37 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: The first thing any fascist (communists also did this)  uprising has required is redefining language. If no one is certain what words mean then it can easily mean what you want it to mean.

That may look that way on the surface, but it doesn't cover what this is really about. Of course they find fancyful synonymes for something that would look bad if called by it's real name. But it doesn't change the fact that most people don't scratch the surface if something meets their opinion. If it doesn't they might. But that's, funny as that may sound, even harder in this day and age as it was in previous times. Social media makes a living out of collecting data and providing news feeds based on the collected data. As a Facebook or Twitter user you get fed what they think might interest you. So, people are stewing inside a bubble. On the left as well as on the right. If they don't actively look for other opinions. But hardly anyone does that.

Synonyms create uncertainty. Uncertainty is required to convince normal people to go along with actions and ideology contrary to their beliefs.

Existence of a internet-induced bubble does not change the prior rules and behaviors for both fascist and communist uprisings. In fact, before the internet both fascists and communists put forth their own bubble through their own newspapers and local demagogues.

The internet has lowered the cost of entry for those propaganda outlets but that is it. The same process of forming a Bund/IWW meeting remains.

You make an appeal to despair, that the current issue is unsolvable due to self-inflicted social media bubbles.

I dispute that on grounds the bubbles have always been there. Man has always been free to disregard publications, speakers and their own family members if that is their desire. Committed ideologues have always been with us.

You simply found it easier to ignore their existence beforehand. Now, with a lowered cost of access, you can see the ugliness that was always there, that organized quietly and voter the way they always voted.