I'd say what Trump is doing now is massively destructive to him. He is now on the defensive about a lot of things. And the quickest way you get a politicians supporters to realise that he's lying is to get him into denial mode, as in a lot of cases that causes the supporters to find out why he's in denial, and they research the facts for themselves. When you lose the power of the narrative like that support often disappears very quickly.

And of course Trump's incoherence and easily disproved lies makes compounds his problems.

(February 19, 2017 at 3:54 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: You make an appeal to despair, that the current issue is unsolvable due to self-inflicted social media bubbles.

I most certainly don't make an appeal to dispair. I only point out that calling a lie a lie won't achieve anything. People never checked their news. Especially if they met their opinions. It takes more than entering into a two way battle between what they call alternate facts and the term lie. Calling lies lies won't achieve anything with people already being convinced by said lies.

I don't have the answer, but it's an uphill battle and certainly not as simple as calling what they say lies. People will wave that away.

Are Pence, Bannon and Trump's speech writer gaslighting him? If it wasn't so outlandish, I'd think they are trying to make him look like he's going insane so they can get rid of him and assume power.

Calling a lie a lie slows down that uncertainty. Contrarywise, accepting the muddied definitions make an ideological bubble all the more comfortable.

Yes they will wave it away. That's not the purpose of the exercise of redefining language. The purpose is to induce uncertainty and cognitive dissonance.

Calling a spade a spade, however, increases the cost of cognitive dissonance.

Consider the following - if your most committed enemy agrees with you on something, doesn't that mean it is more real?

(February 19, 2017 at 4:04 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Consider the following - if your most committed enemy agrees with you on something, doesn't that mean it is more real?

In my case, no. But I'm not a good sample, since I was always used to check every bit of news I got exposed to. It's my job for the better part of 30 years, working as a journalist. I have an opinion but I often refrained from posting something on here because I wasn't sufficiently sure that it was true. But by the same token I'm well aware that most people don't go through these motions. They have an opinion and when they find someone - even more so if powerful - agreeing with them, they take that as fact.

(February 19, 2017 at 11:49 am)abaris Wrote:

(February 19, 2017 at 11:47 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: I heard a theory that people support Trump like they support a football team. They will support him no matter what.
From what I've seen this seems to have at least a chance of being true.

That's not outlandish at all. They will support him no matter what. And if he fucks up royally there will be other scapegoats to blame.

Indeed. It's as if they're more fans than supporters.

Abaris, as a journalist, do you not have an idea of your audience?

Surely (provided you were not writing for a traditionally dry publication) you had some inkling that at least some significant portion took it either as gospel (or enemy propaganda)?

(February 19, 2017 at 5:17 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Abaris, as a journalist, do you not have an idea of your audience?

Surely (provided you were not writing for a traditionally dry publication) you had some inkling that at least some significant portion took it either as gospel (or enemy propaganda)?

Of course I have an idea of audience and try as I might I have an opinion that shines through what I'm writing. What I want to say is, many people take their favorite media as gospel. To me it has become second nature to check everything I read. At least the things that seem important, I'm not checking everything. Many people don't do that. I would say, the majority doesn't. So we have a responsibility, but simply calling a lie a lie doesn't cut it if the other one telling the lie gets more credit.

It's complicated, and I said I don't have the solution. But you won't convince believers by simply telling the truth. The lie is usually all flashy and right up the avenue of the believers whereas your correction will face scorn and disbelief.

The WLB has admitted that the attack was just something he heard on fucking FOX.

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/02/trump-ad...-fox-news/

Quote:Trump admits false ‘last night in Sweden’ claim was something he heard ‘broadcast on Fox News’

Trumps right about the media, and most people are unfazed because we are more interested in the rebuilding the economic engine of the country. Leftists are so focused on social issues which they attribute to racism that they redefined to equal predjudice with power. They see every problem we have a direct result of racism, and therefore see racism everywhere. The financial media for the most part is supportive of the new policies but the corporate controlled media seems to focus on small issues and blows them up while ignoring all the good things. Plus the term fake news kind of comes from David Brock of media matters who along with Soros who helps fund it are organizing many of large protests, and news directives and hit pieces. I'm unfazed by it, and really the alternative media which covers the rest of the story the MSM isn't focused on is a better place to go.

My IRA is looking great. Stock market is up over 2 trillion, small business and consumer confidence is mainly up. Of course the democrats in these polls for some reason think the economy is getting worse or the outlook is worse. When they stop complaining, give Trump a chance to rebuild, get business to start hiring, start building factories etc they will start to understand Obama's policies were mediocre, not great. Still there are a lot of problems, 20 trillion in debt and other bubbles out there, but as long as some policies can be reversed that restricted business growth more people will be back to work, which will cure some of the social ills the left talks about. If the left can shut up for a second and stop thinking everyone is oppressed but white males, maybe we can get together and start to rebuild.