Quote:SteveII Wrote:

{A} I believe the events in the Gospel happened pretty much as described.

There's your problem.  Perhaps some heavy duty psychiatric meds would help.

So you actually think zombies climbed out of their grave and wandered around Jerusalem, huh?

(April 18, 2017 at 1:38 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:SteveII Wrote:

{A} I believe the events in the Gospel happened pretty much as described.

There's your problem.  Perhaps some heavy duty psychiatric meds would help.

So you actually think zombies climbed out of their grave and wandered around Jerusalem, huh?

What Steve will be forced to do to justify this crap is back peddle to "no it was his spirit, not his body"..... I don't think he really realizes how many times we run into this argument. Nor do I think he wants to accept that the further back in time you go in religious history, the more people literally believed his body reanimated itself magically. But, if he cops out to spirit in an attempt to avoid the magic claptrap, he is still stuck with the fact there is no such thing as your consciousness surviving your body's death.

He'd still be stuck with, like any other religion claiming their versions of "spirits" with a naked assertion with no evidence of such a thing.

Not really germane, but it occurred to me as I was catching up on this thread. When I was reading the Gospels, it struck me that Jesus had a hell of a time being recognized (e.g., Road to Emmaus story) after the crucifixion. In addition to the hypotheses 'resurrected', 'not really dead', 'stayed dead but reported otherwise', and 'never really existed in the first place'; I think we should add the possibility 'impersonated after his death'.

'You say you're Jesus? Jesus is dead and you don't even look like him.'

'I got resurrected. Why would you think I would look the same after that? Look at these crucifixion marks!'

(April 18, 2017 at 9:38 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Not really germane, but it occurred to me as I was catching up on this thread. When I was reading the Gospels, it struck me that Jesus had a hell of a time being recognized (e.g., Road to Emmaus story) after the crucifixion. In addition to the hypotheses 'resurrected', 'not really dead', 'stayed dead but reported otherwise', and 'never really existed in the first place'; I think we should add the possibility 'impersonated after his death'.

'You say you're Jesus? Jesus is dead and you don't even look like him.'

'I got resurrected. Why would you think I would look the same after that? Look at these crucifixion marks!'

Rez jesus had pixelation problems.

(April 18, 2017 at 9:38 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Not really germane, but it occurred to me as I was catching up on this thread. When I was reading the Gospels, it struck me that Jesus had a hell of a time being recognized (e.g., Road to Emmaus story) after the crucifixion. In addition to the hypotheses 'resurrected', 'not really dead', 'stayed dead but reported otherwise', and 'never really existed in the first place'; I think we should add the possibility 'impersonated after his death'.

'You say you're Jesus? Jesus is dead and you don't even look like him.'

'I got resurrected. Why would you think I would look the same after that? Look at these crucifixion marks!'

Richard Carrier, among others, notes that the Road To Emmaus bullshit story is copied from the earlier myth of Romulus which was quite popular with the Romans ( of course.)  Jesusism is just rehashed pagan shit.

(April 18, 2017 at 11:24 am)Minimalist Wrote: Richard Carrier, among others, notes that the Road To Emmaus bullshit story is copied from the earlier myth of Romulus which was quite popular with the Romans ( of course.)  Jesusism is just rehashed pagan shit.

bold mine

I thought most of it was (NT and OT). Is the OT original fantasy and the NT borrowed fantasy?

(April 18, 2017 at 6:49 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 1:38 am)Minimalist Wrote: There's your problem.  Perhaps some heavy duty psychiatric meds would help.

So you actually think zombies climbed out of their grave and wandered around Jerusalem, huh?

What Steve will be forced to do to justify this crap is back peddle to "no it was his spirit, not his body"..... I don't think he really realizes how many times we run into this argument. Nor do I think he wants to accept that the further back in time you go in religious history, the more people literally believed his body reanimated itself magically. But, if he cops out to spirit in an attempt to avoid the magic claptrap, he is still stuck with the fact there is no such thing as your consciousness surviving your body's death.

He'd still be stuck with, like any other religion claiming their versions of "spirits" with a naked assertion with no evidence of such a thing.

I think Min was actaully talking about the bit in Matthew where all the dead in Jerusalem burst out their graves, in the thousands, on the Thursday/Friday and the Sunday (grave diggers must have been really fast back then) to pester their children and children's children (for three months).

Exactly, Taz

Quote:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Matt. 27

Really, what kind of a fucking moron do you have to be to fall for shit like that?

(April 18, 2017 at 11:51 am)Tazzycorn Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 6:49 am)Brian37 Wrote: What Steve will be forced to do to justify this crap is back peddle to "no it was his spirit, not his body"..... I don't think he really realizes how many times we run into this argument. Nor do I think he wants to accept that the further back in time you go in religious history, the more people literally believed his body reanimated itself magically. But, if he cops out to spirit in an attempt to avoid the magic claptrap, he is still stuck with the fact there is no such thing as your consciousness surviving your body's death.

He'd still be stuck with, like any other religion claiming their versions of "spirits" with a naked assertion with no evidence of such a thing.

I think Min was actaully talking about the bit in Matthew where all the dead in Jerusalem burst out their graves, in the thousands, on the Thursday/Friday and the Sunday (grave diggers must have been really fast back then) to pester their children and children's children (for three months).

Many or one, the others or Jesus, nobody comes back from the dead.

(April 18, 2017 at 11:48 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 11:24 am)Minimalist Wrote: Richard Carrier, among others, notes that the Road To Emmaus bullshit story is copied from the earlier myth of Romulus which was quite popular with the Romans ( of course.)  Jesusism is just rehashed pagan shit.

bold mine

I thought most of it was (NT and OT). Is the OT original fantasy and the NT borrowed fantasy?

Much of the OT was borrowed and embellished from Sumerian/Babylonian mythology.   Most of the NT was rehashed OT bullshit.  But other scholars have traced some to Homer or other Greco-Roman writers.

http://lacrossetribune.com/news/opinion/...963f4.html

Quote:Finally, since before Christian times, the death and resurrection of Romulus was celebrated in an annual public ceremony in Rome. According to legend, Romulus and Remus were the sons of the god Mars, and the Vestal Virgin Rhea Silvia. Rome’s king and namesake, Romulus, was killed by the first Roman senate. His corpse vanished from the tomb, and he subsequently appeared to his loyal follower Proculus (Latin for “to proclaim”) on the road from Alba Longa to Rome. The demigod orders him to announce a message to his fellow Romans — if they are virtuous, they will conquer the world.

Likewise in Luke, after Jesus is killed and his corpse vanishes, he appears to Cleopas (Greek for “to tell all”) on the road from Jerusalem to Emmaus. Jesus, too, orders his follower to proclaim his words.

Let’s look at the parallels: Both Romulus and Jesus are born of virgins and are hailed as “God,” “Son of God” and “King.” Both incarnated to establish kingdoms and are killed by a conspiracy of ruling powers. Both of their deaths were accompanied by a supernatural darkness, and both corpses later vanish. Both appear around the break of dawn to close followers whose names literally mean “to proclaim,” traveling from east to west on roads of roughly equal length. Romulus’ ethereal body gleams, befitting his glorious message of empire. Jesus materializes in humble disguise, befitting his message of humility — that the virtuous will join the spiritual kingdom.

The similarities here are too numerous to be accidental. The scenes appear to be parallel myths, the latter intentionally lifted from the former.

These were only a few examples of many that clearly demonstrate Mark and others drew from earlier source material for their versions of the Gospel tale. Though such imitation was not an uncommon practice in ancient story writing, it casts doubt on the assertion that the New Testament narratives are “gospel truth.”