(April 25, 2017 at 7:13 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: [edit]

Steve, protip: When you qoute mine, don't link to where you're quote mining from because it confirms you as the shitty little idiot liar and slanderer that you are.

[edit]

And I get called rude (or something similar) for using the word "fantasy".

(April 25, 2017 at 6:36 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 7:13 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: [edit]

Steve, protip: When you qoute mine, don't link to where you're quote mining from because it confirms you as the shitty little idiot liar and slanderer that you are.

[edit]

And I get called rude (or something similar) for using the word "fantasy".

How wude!

(April 25, 2017 at 2:53 pm)SteveII Wrote: I am claiming that the premise: "It is logically possible for God to create a world where everyone always chooses good" is broadly logically possible.

Actually, I would say the opposite. It is logically impossible for God to make a perfect creation. Creation could only be perfect if it was identical to God. However, creation would be unlike God in that it would be a contingent being. Therefore, creation could not be perfect.

(April 25, 2017 at 6:36 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 7:13 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: [edit]

Steve, protip: When you qoute mine, don't link to where you're quote mining from because it confirms you as the shitty little idiot liar and slanderer that you are.

[edit]

And I get called rude (or something similar) for using the word "fantasy".

The difference is that I like a good discussion--even if I don't agree with the other person at all. You are willing to have one. Like many, Tazzy's form of dialog is not worth the effort of a reply.

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(April 25, 2017 at 11:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 2:53 pm)SteveII Wrote: I am claiming that the premise: "It is logically possible for God to create a world where everyone always chooses good" is broadly logically possible.

Actually, I would say the opposite. It is logically impossible for God to make a perfect creation. Creation could only be perfect if it was identical to God. However, creation would be unlike God in that it would be a contingent being. Therefore, creation could not be perfect.

Depends on your definition of 'perfect'. If you mean all attributed are 'perfected,' then I agree with you. But I think God could make something that was perfect in its intended purpose.

(April 25, 2017 at 11:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 2:53 pm)SteveII Wrote: I am claiming that the premise: "It is logically possible for God to create a world where everyone always chooses good" is broadly logically possible.

Actually, I would say the opposite. It is logically impossible for God to make a perfect creation. Creation could only be perfect if it was identical to God. However, creation would be unlike God in that it would be a contingent being. Therefore, creation could not be perfect.

(April 25, 2017 at 11:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 2:53 pm)SteveII Wrote: I am claiming that the premise: "It is logically possible for God to create a world where everyone always chooses good" is broadly logically possible.

Actually, I would say the opposite. It is logically impossible for God to make a perfect creation. Creation could only be perfect if it was identical to God. However, creation would be unlike God in that it would be a contingent being. Therefore, creation could not be perfect.

And this is exactly the sort of empty dribble you get when you make assertions about what a thing which you can't even demonstrate exists in the first place can, or can't possibly do. [emoji849]

(April 25, 2017 at 11:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 2:53 pm)SteveII Wrote: I am claiming that the premise: "It is logically possible for God to create a world where everyone always chooses good" is broadly logically possible.

Actually, I would say the opposite. It is logically impossible for God to make a perfect creation. Creation could only be perfect if it was identical to God. However, creation would be unlike God in that it would be a contingent being. Therefore, creation could not be perfect.

You just admitted a flaw in claiming a perfect being. There is no "impossible" in the word "all" when claiming "all powerful".

If it is impossible for God to make a perfect creation, then it cannot be claimed to have an "all powerful" attribute.

This is just bullshit dodging on your part to prop up a bad claim.

If God is perfect and all powerful then there is nothing that should stop him from making a perfect creation. 

If you are going to claim "all powerful" then fucking own it or admit it is bullshit.

I'd say the real reason you try to justify this horrible logic is because you merely like the idea of having a perfect sky hero.  This is just you trying to have it both ways to avoid the flawed claim.

SteveII Wrote:

Mister Agenda Wrote:In other words, your version of God isn't omnipotent enough to accomplish goodness on Earth, but you buy that he'll be able to pull it off in heaven, despite previous rebellions.

Do you not see that by establishing free will, God has decided not to controlling the result? Your question is literally asking why can't God control people with free will. Your mention of an angelic rebellion undermines your own complaint. Some angels--despite direct knowledge and access to God, exercised their free will and rebelled, yet you would have us believe that it is likely that God (if he exists) could create free will humans without the direct knowledge and access the angels had and we would always choose good.

So how is heaven going to be perfect again?

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Neo-Scholastic Wrote:

SteveII Wrote:I am claiming that the premise: "It is logically possible for God to create a world where everyone always chooses good" is broadly logically possible.

Actually, I would say the opposite. It is logically impossible for God to make a perfect creation. Creation could only be perfect if it was identical to God. However, creation would be unlike God in that it would be a contingent being. Therefore, creation could not be perfect.

So one of God's many limitations is that he/she/it/them is unable to create anything that is perfect.

(April 26, 2017 at 9:11 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:

SteveII Wrote:Do you not see that by establishing free will, God has decided not to controlling the result? Your question is literally asking why can't God control people with free will. Your mention of an angelic rebellion undermines your own complaint. Some angels--despite direct knowledge and access to God, exercised their free will and rebelled, yet you would have us believe that it is likely that God (if he exists) could create free will humans without the direct knowledge and access the angels had and we would always choose good.

So how is heaven going to be perfect again?

I think that the continuous physical presence of God will be a powerful enough force to overwhelm any desire not to live a holy life (that's the view that I think most persuasive).

(April 26, 2017 at 7:01 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(April 25, 2017 at 11:28 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Actually, I would say the opposite. It is logically impossible for God to make a perfect creation. Creation could only be perfect if it was identical to God. However, creation would be unlike God in that it would be a contingent being. Therefore, creation could not be perfect.