(May 3, 2017 at 10:36 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I honestly don't know if Rik is for real or just a troll. Nonetheless, I don't think trying to engage is at all productive.

Borrowing from Marvin in the good book, it gives me a headache just trying to think down to his level.

(May 1, 2017 at 10:43 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(May 1, 2017 at 10:37 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: ..What?

I don't recall anyone here saying science is the "Panacea" to human problems, it's just currently our most accurate way of investigating the world and how reality works.

That being said, the answer to your questions could very well be "We don't know yet."

What?
Sorry mate but I already lost the count of how many times people here say again and again that
science is the way and only way to solve human problems.  

You lost count at zero? 

Quote:Little Rik Wrote:
Wrong again Crunchy.   

Ok good. You're going to show me why intuition is not part of the first step of the scientific method as I explained. (since you brought it up)
Perhaps you will also try to show me why I'm wrong when I said that you think that intuition is somehow either better than or a replacement for the Scientific Method at making and verifying discoveries like relativity. (that you also brought up)

Quote:The very source of your life wouldn't care less whether you invent a spaceship to travel to other
planets in the universe or any other scientific discovery.
In the mind of this source everything that human beings discover is already there so no big deal
at all.
Life is all about discovering who we really are.
This is the big deal Crunchy.
All the rest is just a way to carry on in the quest for survival.

By concentrating all our energy in the quest for external deals and forgetting the real deal number one
people get lost and will have to carry on and on life after life chasing a folly that get them nowhere.
Good luck in your quest for the illusive McCoy.  

So I was wrong. You're not just dumb you are disingenuous as well. You've ignored our conversation and instead decided to take it meta. 
Going Meta is an old rhetorical trick of taking a debate or analysis to another level of abstraction so as to avoid admitting that you were wrong. In this case it's to claim intuition was better than science and then instead of defending that point, you go off on a tangent about what is really important to you.

You're not being very smart is not what bothers me Rik. What bothers me is this lack of sincerity in dealing with our conversation. Is this what yoga teaches you? Does yoga teach you that when you've made a mistake you should deflect and try to change the subject?

So I'll point out your error again: You think that intuition is somehow either better than or a replacement for the Scientific Method. This is incorrect. 
Your choice is to either try and prove why that's incorrect or to accept you've made a mistake.
Waxing philosophical about the true meaning of life instead of addressing the mistake you've made is a slimy way out. Let me repeat and emphasize: it's a slimy tactic to protect your fragile ego. 

I'm willing to have a conversation with anyone Rik, but I don't tolerate disingenuous people and I certainly have no interest in talking to someone who behaves this way. If you're unwilling to have an honest discussion I see no need to ever listen to word you say on any subject.

(May 4, 2017 at 2:27 pm)Crunchy Wrote:

Quote:Little Rik Wrote:
Wrong again Crunchy.   

Ok good. You're going to show me why intuition is not part of the first step of the scientific method as I explained. (since you brought it up)
Perhaps you will also try to show me why I'm wrong when I said that you think that intuition is somehow either better than or a replacement for the Scientific Method at making and verifying discoveries like relativity. (that you also brought up)

Quote:The very source of your life wouldn't care less whether you invent a spaceship to travel to other
planets in the universe or any other scientific discovery.
In the mind of this source everything that human beings discover is already there so no big deal
at all.
Life is all about discovering who we really are.
This is the big deal Crunchy.
All the rest is just a way to carry on in the quest for survival.

By concentrating all our energy in the quest for external deals and forgetting the real deal number one
people get lost and will have to carry on and on life after life chasing a folly that get them nowhere.
Good luck in your quest for the illusive McCoy.  

So I was wrong. You're not just dumb you are disingenuous as well. You've ignored our conversation and instead decided to take it meta. 
Going Meta is an old rhetorical trick of taking a debate or analysis to another level of abstraction so as to avoid admitting that you were wrong. In this case it's to claim intuition was better than science and then instead of defending that point, you go off on a tangent about what is really important to you.

You're not being very smart is not what bothers me Rik. What bothers me is this lack of sincerity in dealing with our conversation. Is this what yoga teaches you? Does yoga teach you that when you've made a mistake you should deflect and try to change the subject?

So I'll point out your error again: You think that intuition is somehow either better than or a replacement for the Scientific Method. This is incorrect. 
Your choice is to either try and prove why that's incorrect or to accept you've made a mistake.
Waxing philosophical about the true meaning of life instead of addressing the mistake you've made is a slimy way out. Let me repeat and emphasize: it's a slimy tactic to protect your fragile ego. 

I'm willing to have a conversation with anyone Rik, but I don't tolerate disingenuous people and I certainly have no interest in talking to someone who behaves this way. If you're unwilling to have an honest discussion I see no need to ever listen to word you say on any subject.

Yes Crunchy.
You certainly are wrong.
You accuse me to avoid to answer your questions when in fact I already answered them.

First I already explained how there is only one consciousness but as an iceberg you can only see the top
of it and if you want to see the lot you got to go down and bring the part below above and the best way to do this is by engaging in a scientific system such as the intuitional science.
Yoga is intuitional science but shouldn't be confused with what these days is yoga or yoga exercises only.
I also said that the physical science is good.
I never said that is bad but I said that intuitional science is even better as it is given by human beings that already acquired human emancipation.

Now let us come to the point that by the way I already did deal with but you missed.
WHY YOGA OR INTUITIONAL PRACTICE IS BETTER THAN THE NORMAL PHYSICAL SCIENCE?

The normal scientific process miss something that is why not only takes ages and ages from life to life
to more lives needed but by missing something it will never get to the final point or to human emancipation while yoga being a complete system will.
So what physical science miss?
It miss the spiritual side of ourselves.
As the name say ........PHYSICAL..........is obvious that can not deal with the spiritual aspect.
Why the spiritual aspect is important?
If you only would understand how the human mind works you wouldn't have to ask this question.
Also here I already explained that material-physical pleasures are unable to give permanent satisfaction
and this is proven by the fact that people have to go back again and again to the same pleasures in order to get satisfied once again.
Yoga on the other hand cover the spiritual aspect as well that is why it is a complete system unlike the physical science.    

(color mine)

---

(May 3, 2017 at 10:36 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I honestly don't know if Rik is for real or just a troll. Nonetheless, I don't think trying to engage is at all productive.

Hi Lady.  

We all know that you are an expert in Christianity points so I was curious to know how your system works.

1) If Jesus is the only son of God who are we the sons of?
2) Did Jesus went to other planets where life is a real possibility to teach Christianity or he only came in this planet?
3) Is the pope infallible as the church say?

Thanks if you can answer these questions.  

Quote:Yes Crunchy.
You certainly are wrong.

Nope. If you could read for comprehension you would realize that the only thing I was wrong about was your just being dumb as you are disingenuous as well. In fact you've proven me correct yet again by trying to twist my words. So I fixed it for you.

"So I was wrong. You're not just dumb you are disingenuous as well."

Quote:You accuse me to avoid to answer your questions when in fact I already answered them.

First I already explained how there is only one consciousness but as an iceberg you can only see the top
of it and if you want to see the lot you got to go down and bring the part below above and the best way to do this is by engaging in a scientific system such as the intuitional science.

No, you did not "explain" that. You have not explained anything at all.  All you've done is made unsupported statements. If you want to support those statements you would need some sort of methodological approach to prove what you think is correct. Got any ideas on what that approach might be called Einstein?

Quote:Yoga is intuitional science but shouldn't be confused with what these days is yoga or yoga exercises only.
I also said that the physical science is good.
I never said that is bad but I said that intuitional science is even better as it is given by human beings that already acquired human emancipation.

And I never said that intuition was bad... but I did EXPLAIN that intuition is the first step in the scientific process. I showed you two charts of that process and step one is get an idea.
However, as the dishonest person that you are, you ignored that and went off on a philosophical tangent instead of just admitting that you had made a mistake.

Quote:Now let us come to the point that by the way I already did deal with but you missed.
WHY YOGA OR INTUITIONAL PRACTICE IS BETTER THAN THE NORMAL PHYSICAL SCIENCE?

It isn't better, it's a part of. You can deny this all you want but it won't change the truth. No matter what insight you get from meditation you will have to go through a process to get that insight out to the world and have it verified. If you now want to claim your insight is only meant to be self reflective (because you're a liar), then it is personal and has nothing to do with other people. Science is about sharing and growing knowledge.

Quote:The normal scientific process miss something that is why not only takes ages and ages from life to life
to more lives needed but by missing something it will never get to the final point or to human emancipation while yoga being a complete system will.
So what physical science miss?
It miss the spiritual side of ourselves.
As the name say ........PHYSICAL..........is obvious that can not deal with the spiritual aspect.
Why the spiritual aspect is important?
If you only would understand how the human mind works you wouldn't have to ask this question.
Also here I already explained that material-physical pleasures are unable to give permanent satisfaction
and this is proven by the fact that people have to go back again and again to the same pleasures in order to get satisfied once again.
Yoga on the other hand cover the spiritual aspect as well that is why it is a complete system unlike the physical science.     

Even if I accept your woo-woo nonsense and accepted your lies that you have already explained things that you did not ever explain, You yourself have just admitted that yoga can tell us nothing about the questions you first posed. You have just sequestered yoga to the fantasy world of "spirituality". So once again, you've shot yourself in the foot.

I think we need a recap of your dishonesty in this conversation.

You started by asking questions about the physical universe and I showed you the scientific method and explained to you why it has been and is the best method of trying to resolve such questions.
You then said that Intuition was better than the scientific method giving no reasons whatsoever.
I explained to you that you can certainly use intuition in step one of the scientific method.
THIS IS WHERE YOU BEGAN YOUR DISHONEST OBFUSCATION

Instead of addressing either your original questions or my reply concerning intuition and the scientific method you brought up Einstein as an example of intuition forgetting completely that Einstein used the scientific method (with his intuitive reasoning as the starting point.. step one.) to bring relativity to the world.
I pointed this out to you and all you did was go meta. You ignored the entire conversation to that point and went off on a tangent about discovering who we really are. This is a slimy tactic of derailing the conversation because you knew you had no honest rebuttal.

You're a liar Rik. A dishonest person who cannot carry on a straightforward conversation without resorting to cheap tactics like derailing the conversation when it isn't going your way.
You are a disgrace to the yoga community.

Wrong again Crunchy.
The evidence that the consciousness is like an iceberg is very easily demonstrated.
When you try to think of something and the idea doesn't come into your conscious mind then you have to think.
Why you think and where the idea come from?
The reason is that the idea is hidden in the subconscious mind or the part of the iceberg below the water.
Sometime it pop up after your mental effort while other time does not and by doing more study and effort
then it will come up into your mind.
That means that although the consciousness is one one part is not hidden and the other it is.

Quote:Yoga is intuitional science but shouldn't be confused with what these days is yoga or yoga exercises only.
I also said that the physical science is good.
I never said that is bad but I said that intuitional science is even better as it is given by human beings that already acquired human emancipation.

Quote:And I never said that intuition was bad... but I did EXPLAIN that intuition is the first step in the scientific process. I showed you two charts of that process and step one is get an idea.
However, as the dishonest person that you are, you ignored that and went off on a philosophical tangent instead of just admitting that you had made a mistake.

You are the one who see a mistake.
I don't, beside you don't even show where my so called mistake suppose to be.  

Quote:Now let us come to the point that by the way I already did deal with but you missed.
WHY YOGA OR INTUITIONAL PRACTICE IS BETTER THAN THE NORMAL PHYSICAL SCIENCE?

Quote:It isn't better, it's a part of. You can deny this all you want but it won't change the truth. No matter what insight you get from meditation you will have to go through a process to get that insight out to the world and have it verified. If you now want to claim your insight is only meant to be self reflective (because you're a liar), then it is personal and has nothing to do with other people. Science is about sharing and growing knowledge.

Wrong again Crunchy.
You don't and could not share the knowledge within.
It would be like if you try to share with me the good feeling that you feel when you are in love with your
loved one.
That feeling belong to you and only you and you can only share that with your partner.
Intuitional science is shared with God.  

Quote:The normal scientific process miss something that is why not only takes ages and ages from life to life
to more lives needed but by missing something it will never get to the final point or to human emancipation while yoga being a complete system will.
So what physical science miss?
It miss the spiritual side of ourselves.
As the name say ........PHYSICAL..........is obvious that can not deal with the spiritual aspect.
Why the spiritual aspect is important?
If you only would understand how the human mind works you wouldn't have to ask this question.
Also here I already explained that material-physical pleasures are unable to give permanent satisfaction
and this is proven by the fact that people have to go back again and again to the same pleasures in order to get satisfied once again.
Yoga on the other hand cover the spiritual aspect as well that is why it is a complete system unlike the physical science.     

Quote:Even if I accept your woo-woo nonsense and accepted your lies that you have already explained things that you did not ever explain, You yourself have just admitted that yoga can tell us nothing about the questions you first posed. You have just sequestered yoga to the fantasy world of "spirituality". So once again, you've shot yourself in the foot.

I think we need a recap of your dishonesty in this conversation.

You started by asking questions about the physical universe and I showed you the scientific method and explained to you why it has been and is the best method of trying to resolve such questions.
You then said that Intuition was better than the scientific method giving no reasons whatsoever.
I explained to you that you can certainly use intuition in step one of the scientific method.
THIS IS WHERE YOU BEGAN YOUR DISHONEST OBFUSCATION

Instead of addressing either your original questions or my reply concerning intuition and the scientific method you brought up Einstein as an example of intuition forgetting completely that Einstein used the scientific method (with his intuitive reasoning as the starting point.. step one.) to bring relativity to the world.
I pointed this out to you and all you did was go meta. You ignored the entire conversation to that point and went off on a tangent about discovering who we really are. This is a slimy tactic of derailing the conversation because you knew you had no honest rebuttal.

You're a liar Rik. A dishonest person who cannot carry on a straightforward conversation without resorting to cheap tactics like derailing the conversation when it isn't going your way.
You are a disgrace to the yoga community.

Wrong once again Crunchy.
Einstein was certainly using the scientific method but at the same time he was also going behind
the border of physical science.
He knew that there is something a lot bigger behind this physical world.
In this way he was open to all possibilities and when you reach this stage the knowledge can go behind
the physicality.
That is why he was rewarded with the knowledge that made him so famous.  

It's been almost exactly a week. Have we had the day of reckoning yet? How did it go?

(May 8, 2017 at 7:20 am)Cyberman Wrote: It's been almost exactly a week. Have we had the day of reckoning yet? How did it go?

I have been given an answer.
Rik is a liar and egotist who ignores everything anyone says. He thinks he is infallible and is therefore useless in conversation.
The ignore function was made for self righteous assholes like Rik.

(May 8, 2017 at 6:58 pm)Crunchy Wrote: The ignore function was made for self righteous assholes like Rik.

If only more people would do this instead of giving him all this attention (which is really what he is after at the end of the day). Same should be done with Drich.

(May 8, 2017 at 7:20 am)Cyberman Wrote: It's been almost exactly a week. Have we had the day of reckoning yet? How did it go?

You missed it?

It was everything god promised.

Lights in the sky.  The clash of arms.  Trumpets.  Angels and demons fighting one another.

The dead rising.

People ascending into the air.

It was awesome.

Okay, so the lights in the sky were a meteor shower.

And the clash of arms were just people clapping.

And the trumpets just a couple of buskers.

And the angels and devils fighting one another were just delusions.

And the dead rising was on the Walking Dead.

And the people ascending were all in planes.

And it wasn't that awesome.

And god couldn't really promise anything because he is, after all, fictional.