I was listening to the radio and there was a discussion about how some Trump supporters are willing to let him get away with anything and there was a general lack of understanding as to how this could be. So here's why I think that Trumps support nevers goes below about 35% no matter what he does.

For several decades now, conservative media have been using fear to manipulate conservative voters. There is already much research that shows that conservatives are more fearful than liberals. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself and in some situations, it is actually a good thing. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the...tudy-finds

However, it does make people with a conservative mindset susceptible to being manipulated by fear. 
This is what has been done in a methodical and organized manner for many years and this approach has been very effective whether anyone likes to admit it or not. This strategy has worked. There is now, IMO a set number of the US population who have been trained like helper monkeys to fear liberals, progressives, the government, Obama, Hillary etc... There is also some percentage that is attracted to the racist elements of Trump but I don't see that as the main issue. Conservative talk radio, TV, and internet sites have been far more focused on demonizing liberals than any other "enemy". 

It isn't a rational decision they have come to, these people are totally emotionally invested in the idea that the worst enemy facing them personally and the United States in general are Liberals and government. Liberals are no longer seen as people you disagree with on policy matters, they are enemies to be distrusted and defeated at all costs. Viewed in this light, how could anyone possibly expect these people to suddenly start to side with a horrible enemy out to steal their freedom and destroy their lives?  

If a video surfaced that showed Trump directly colluding with Putin to defeat the Dems... so what, that's not treason. They are enemy number one and it's Trumps patriotic duty to defeat enemy number one even if he has to collude with enemy number two.  

It is a lack of empathy that is preventing people from understanding the motivation of the fear monkeys. Their heart and sole is behind the idea that opposing liberals is a matter of life and death. That doesn't go away just because Trump does stupid shit and it makes them vulnerable to every crazy conspiracy theory as long as it shows the evils of liberalism.

I don't think that all conservatives have been manipulated like this. But there is a large enough percentage and they are vocal enough (and thanks to things like gerrymandering) have been given enough power to really make a difference.

(May 16, 2017 at 7:42 pm)Crunchy Wrote: I was listening to the radio and there was a discussion about how some Trump supporters are willing to let him get away with anything and there was a general lack of understanding as to how this could be. So here's why I think that Trumps support nevers goes below about 35% no matter what he does.

For several decades now, conservative media have been using fear to manipulate conservative voters. There is already much research that shows that conservatives are more fearful than liberals. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself and in some situations, it is actually a good thing. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the...tudy-finds

However, it does make people with a conservative mindset susceptible to being manipulated by fear. 
This is what has been done in a methodical and organized manner for many years and this approach has been very effective whether anyone likes to admit it or not. This strategy has worked. There is now, IMO a set number of the US population who have been trained like helper monkeys to fear liberals, progressives, the government, Obama, Hillary etc... There is also some percentage that is attracted to the racist elements of Trump but I don't see that as the main issue. Conservative talk radio, TV, and internet sites have been far more focused on demonizing liberals than any other "enemy". 

It isn't a rational decision they have come to, these people are totally emotionally invested in the idea that the worst enemy facing them personally and the United States in general are Liberals and government. Liberals are no longer seen as people you disagree with on policy matters, they are enemies to be distrusted and defeated at all costs. Viewed in this light, how could anyone possibly expect these people to suddenly start to side with a horrible enemy out to steal their freedom and destroy their lives?  

If a video surfaced that showed Trump directly colluding with Putin to defeat the Dems... so what, that's not treason. They are enemy number one and it's Trumps patriotic duty to defeat enemy number one even if he has to collude with enemy number two.  

It is a lack of empathy that is preventing people from understanding the motivation of the fear monkeys. Their heart and sole is behind the idea that opposing liberals is a matter of life and death. That doesn't go away just because Trump does stupid shit and it makes them vulnerable to every crazy conspiracies theory as long as it shows the evils of liberalism.

I don't think that all conservatives have been manipulated like this. But there is a large enough percentage and they are vocal enough (and thanks to things like gerrymandering) have been given enough power to really make a difference.

I feel it comes with the idea I hate to say it of religion .If you believe the world is filled with dark demonic forces that are conspiring to destroy you  will tend to project those "demonic" influences on the "other" . I have noted that more liberal Christians are far less likely to buy into satanic conspiracy (on average ) then there more conservative counterparts .

Please note I'm not just bashing religion and conservatives . As I note that all to often liberals have tendency toward a paranoid mistrust of tradition and a recklessness  notion of futurism . While ignoring the consequences.

Interesting. It then comes down to the oft repeated idea in skeptical circles that people can hardly be reasoned out of positions they haven't reasoned themselves into. I see two solutions, first of all normalize liberals again simply on an emotional basis by setting good examples and being out there talking to "Trump supporters" instead of shunning them. Second, the US urgently needs a sane conservative party to give people who don't want to vote D an alternative that isn't as batshit radical.

I thought this was going to be a thread about how scary monkeys are.
And they are scary.
Unpredictable, nasty little fuckers.

Quote:Orochi Wrote:
I feel it comes with the idea I hate to say it of religion .If you believe the world is filled with dark demonic forces that are conspiring to destroy you  will tend to project those "demonic" influences on the "other" . I have noted that more liberal Christians are far less likely to buy into satanic conspiracy (on average ) then there more conservative counterparts .

Please note I'm not just bashing religion and conservatives . As I note that all to often liberals have tendency toward a paranoid mistrust of tradition and a recklessness  notion of futurism . While ignoring the consequences.

It's a fair point. It should come as no surprise that those who literally believe in demons would be more capable of demonizing their opponents. I also don't think liberals are immune to being manipulated, it would just require a different type of manipulation more attuned to their idiosyncrasies. Of course, these are generalizations but I believe that is the point. Manipulation like this only requires the exploitation of tendencies. The thing that Fox news, Infowars, Rush Limbaugh, etc... have done is beat the drums of fear. It doesn't take in depth analysis to see the daily ongoing fear mongering. Repeat this for a few decades and here we are. Americans despising their fellow Americans more than their actual enemies.

Quote:Alex K Wrote:
Interesting. It then comes down to the oft repeated idea in skeptical circles that people can hardly be reasoned out of positions they haven't reasoned themselves into. I see two solutions, first of all normalize liberals again simply on an emotional basis by setting good examples and being out there talking to "Trump supporters" instead of shunning them. Second, the US urgently needs a sane conservative party to give people who don't want to vote D an alternative that isn't as batshit radical.

I think that is an accurate interpretation as to why it is impossible to reason with creationists for example. It was not a reasoned analysis that led them to their belief therefore a reasoned rebuttal has zero chance of having any effect.
I have no idea as to a solution. I recall early discussions about the internet where people thought that a repository of all this information would surely lead to a new type of enlightenment and it appears the opposite is actually happening. The bad information has just as much of a voice as the good information and average humans are bad at differentiating. 

Go to the comment sections of any news site, not just the conservative ones, and you will see post after post of pure hatred towards liberals. I see liberals sometimes behaving the same but it appears to be quantitatively different. This is just my observations though and I think it would be an interesting subject to be studied in detail.

The difficulty for many liberals in hating their conservative counterparts is that the concept of the Big Liberal Tent is at odds with the idea of casting someone out, even if said person is a literal Nazi. This in turn manifests as disproportionate coddling of rather extreme perpectives for little gain. Eventually it gets toxic enough that people polarize, run each other down and effectively cast people out anyways with much collateral damage.

Conservatives do the same but with less handwringing, moral masturbation (Oh, but what about free speech! cried the older liberals when justifying their paralysis) and pearl clutching. Watching the GOP primary, their behavior, if done in a liberal circuit, would be inexcusable and grounds for entire blocs to refuse to work together. It's harder for liberals to play identity games because the entire liberal identity is defined as a multitude, not any appeal to authoritarian "tradition".

(May 17, 2017 at 6:54 am)Little lunch Wrote: I thought this was going to be a thread about how scary monkeys are.
And they are scary.
Unpredictable, nasty little fuckers.

You've been to Gibraltar then!