OK Rich, apart from the trash ghost, what other life events have led you to your belief in god? You did promise us some more.

Quote:Because he wanted to.

Quote:An atheist can say such a thing because they could be bike riding and then hear God talking, and he would know that it is God because the voice immediately says in a booming voice, "I AM GOD."
This is all hypothetical by the way

Trust me, if I heard something like that, the first thing I'd jump to is that I'm delusional. If it continues I'll have myself checked out.
Hearing voices is not a good thing. It could mean you're running out of oxygen or about to have a fit. I'd be worried about my health.

(July 23, 2011 at 3:34 pm)bozo Wrote: OK Rich, apart from the trash ghost, what other life events have led you to your belief in god? You did promise us some more.

Its most likely to start as : "Once there was this band camp and.. " and finally a bugle sounded on its own. There was no one near it. Might be a dead band member. Hmmm. Might as well be a dead Indian shaman. There's a burial ground somewhere close. There must be.

(July 23, 2011 at 3:34 pm)Ace Otana Wrote:

Quote:Because he wanted to.

Quote:An atheist can say such a thing because they could be bike riding and then hear God talking, and he would know that it is God because the voice immediately says in a booming voice, "I AM GOD."
This is all hypothetical by the way

Trust me, if I heard something like that, the first thing I'd jump to is that I'm delusional. If it continues I'll have myself checked out.
Hearing voices is not a good thing. It could mean you're running out of oxygen or about to have a fit. I'd be worried about my health.

True enough. However, you have to assume that you are delusional and/or running out of air. Let's add one thing to the scenario: if you've never read or seen the Bible, yet you are an ignorant person and an atheist (not saying anyone here is), and you hear God and he's throwing verses after verses of the Bible at you (which you all remember), how can you convince other atheists that God is real?

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(July 23, 2011 at 9:37 pm)TheCarlisle Wrote: True enough. However, you have to assume that you are delusional and/or running out of air. Let's add one thing to the scenario: if you've never read or seen the Bible, yet you are an ignorant person and an atheist (not saying anyone here is), and you hear God and he's throwing verses after verses of the Bible at you (which you all remember), how can you convince other atheists that God is real?

Ok, for argument sake I really did hear some twat preach bible quotes into my head which I would consider a violation of my person.
I wouldn't assume it was god because I only go where the evidence points and will only go for explanations that require the fewest assumptions. Which would be that I'm delusional. But if (BIG IF!) it was the impossible (god) then I can't see anyway for me to prove what happened. At all. If there is no evidence, then I've got nothing to show. Just best that I keep it to myself.

Now such a situation cannot happen because god is an extremely high improbability and based on what we know with the available evidence (or lack of) god doesn't exist. But if it did, there is no way to prove it and I would not jump to such an improbable conclusion.

At the very least, you certainly couldn't expect other people to believe it. This is one of the biggest problems theists have, when they invoke the 'Belief from personal experience' argument. Even if you allow them their sincere belief that they have experienced God, why on Earth does that mean anyone else should believe it?

I knew where he was getting at. He proposed an event where I as an atheist had this "personal experience" with his god, and asked me how I would convince other atheist minds of it. Well you can't. That "personal experience" could be anything. Delusion most likely. You can only take their word for it, which I won't. If I took everybody's word for it, I'd believe in anything, which is of course....madness.

Yepper. That's the problem, Carlisle. Reasonable people ask for testable, verifiable evidence. We won't be swung by 'I heard God talking to me'. I saw you claim earlier in the thread that God's existence had already been proven. That is simply not true, and the existence of this forum is one of a million pieces of evidence for that. If the claim had been proven, we wouldn't be having the discussion. Evidence is really all an atheist will ever ask you to provide.

(July 24, 2011 at 3:35 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: I knew where he was getting at. He proposed an event where I as an atheist had this "personal experience" with his god, and asked me how I would convince other atheist minds of it. Well you can't. That "personal experience" could be anything. Delusion most likely. You can only take their word for it, which I won't. If I took everybody's word for it, I'd believe in anything, which is of course....madness.

Even in this fake scenario, you will not believe in God. If that's the case, then there is no hope for you...

(July 24, 2011 at 4:49 pm)TheCarlisle Wrote: Even in this fake scenario, you will not believe in God. If that's the case, then there is no hope for you...

Of course I won't believe in god. Not until there is evidence. Personal experience will only lead me to conclude that I'm delusional or simply hallucinating due to some kind of lack of concentration, low oxygen levels, malnutrition, blood rush or some unknown cause. I will not jump to religious nonsense unless there is evidence that can support it.
Occam's Razer. I'm always sticking to Occam's Razer.