Every aspect of religion or spirituality is either human created or innate within us. This does not leave me feeling alone. I know that we are capable of every benefit that religion or spirituality brings. I simply do not attribute any of it to an invisible man in the sky. We are the source of the good and evils of religion.

(July 8, 2017 at 8:02 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: Most everyone here knows my ''story,'' but the nutshell version is that I grew up in a Christian home, and thought I believed most of what I was taught. As an adult, I've questioned like anyone does, but about five years ago, I came to the conclusion that Christianity was built on man made lies, and that the Bible really is a book designed by men to control other men. Religion is a powerful tool to control others. Then, my grandmother died a little over two years ago, and when she became ill, I was an atheist at that time, and it was then that I started to feel emotionally lost as an non-believer. Logically, atheism was still ''it'' for me, but emotionally, dealing with the loss of my grandmother was just hard. Despite having quite a few atheist friends, I couldn't find any solace in regards to processing my grandmother's death. So, I started looking into other beliefs system like Buddhism and even Islam. Without going into a lot of details, I have always felt this need to believe. Like if I don't believe, something bad will happen. Thanks to my indoctrinated childhood, I've always felt like something outside of myself should solve my problems, or come to my rescue. I'm not ''good enough'' on my own. In organized religion, the teachings revolve around how you're simply not good enough to do anything on your own, and you need this Great Comforter to help you. And when you believe it, it IS comforting. But, why do I need this belief? Logically, there is no proof that a deity exists, but why must I tell myself that one does? I felt almost two years ago, like I had an actual spiritual experience, and now I wonder...was I creating that experience because I've missed the emotional comfort that faith brought to me? And looking back, there likely was a logical explanation for what happened ut I applied a supernatural answer to it.

My mind and heart never really ''agreed'' when it came to my atheist position five years ago, and when I come to this site, or hang out with my friends who are atheists, there is comfort in logic. Simple logic. But, we're not only logical people, the sum total of our lives isn't built around our intellects. We have emotions, and while they shouldn't govern us, they are important. So, where I'm at right now is that I want to believe that God exists. Or a god. I'm not following any religion, don't go to church, etc. Yet, I feel a pull towards spirituality. I've been reading about ''spiritual atheism'' and wonder if it is an actual thing. Can an atheist, also be spiritual? Can someone logically come to a conclusion that a god doesn't exist, yet wishes to believe that one does? Have any of you felt this way, do you ever wish you believed, or have had a desire to believe, yet logically, you know that the concept is absurd? Is there no meaningful way to reconcile the two?

One of my friends recently said to me (he is an atheist, always has been) that he thinks it's interesting that I feel that everyone is on a ''faith journey,'' for he has never felt that way. He said that there is no journey of faith for him, he accepts his lack of belief, and doesn't try to ''fix it.'' He said that he thinks I'm trying to ''fix'' something inside of me, as if there is something wrong with not believing in a god. And that struck me so hard, he is right, I guess. When I was an atheist, intellectually and logically, I felt fine. I had no issues with my concluding that a god likely doesn't exist, but emotionally, I've always felt empty not believing. Just being honest. Because I was taught to put God in the everyday, human void that we all probably experience from time to time. ''God of the gaps,'' plugging God into the painful gaps of my life. So, that's where I'm at right now, and wonder if I'm alone in these thoughts. 

Thanks for listening, and if you have any thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them.

Religion-s let you down?
That is quite normal considering that religions are based on dogmas (invented so called truth).
Remember however that God never started religions nor that He agree with what religions say so it is important not to put God down just because religions let you down.
Keep on asking within for the truth and the teacher will appear.
If you are sincere in your quest you can't go wrong.  

(July 9, 2017 at 8:17 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

I prefer this believe song.

Hey Deidre, thanks for sharing your experiences. Your self-awareness does you credit as does your willingness to confront your emotional needs; alongside the journeys for truth and purpose, this is a quest that can last a lifetime. This sort of conversation can be deep and intensely personal so I promise I'll be gentle

To your key question, of course it's possible to be a spiritual atheist. You already are and you're not alone. As I'm sure you know, many existing religions are atheistic as are the non-denominational new-age spiritualists. For example Gaianists celebrate the world as a systemic entity and presuppose a single global consciousness but Gaia isn't a god.

The question I would ask you, and encourage you to seek answers for, is how important is the truth to you? That is to say, armed with the knowledge you have regarding the likelihood of the existence of supernatural propositions, how do you intend to address the disconnect between how you feel and what can be demonstrated about the universe? That question will ultimately bring you face to face with your fear of mortality and you're already aware of the way religions can manipulate that fear to their own advantage. You're keenly aware that you're fighting a battle with your indoctrination and that's half the victory right there!

When all's said and done, some people will compartmentalise their supernatural beliefs to protect their comfort zone and avoid the conflict whilst others will seek to address the conflict and either become religious or lose those beliefs. Wherever your journey takes you is okay as long as you're honest with yourself and for what it's worth, in that regard, I think you'll be fine.

(July 9, 2017 at 10:18 am)Ben Davis Wrote: To your key question, of course it's possible to be a spiritual atheist. You already are and you're not alone. As I'm sure you know, many existing religions are atheistic as are the non-denominational new-age spiritualists. For example Gaianists celebrate the world as a systemic entity and presuppose a single global consciousness but Gaia isn't a god.

I beg to differ.

Quote:In Greek mythology, Gaia (/ˈɡeɪ.ə/ or /ˈɡaɪ.ə/ from Ancient Greek Γαῖα, a poetical form of Γῆ Gē, "land" or "earth"[1]), also spelled Gaea, is the personification of the Earth[2] and one of the Greek primordial deities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)

(July 9, 2017 at 10:12 am)Lutrinae Wrote:

(July 9, 2017 at 8:17 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

I prefer this believe song.

With all due respect that's just so gay.

(July 9, 2017 at 10:18 am)Ben Davis Wrote: ... of course it's possible to be a spiritual atheist.

To this point, Diedre might wish to read The Little Book of Atheist Spirituality by Andre Compte-Sponville.

Religion and belief in the super natural is not a "need" it s a desire. It is really an flaw in our evolutionary history. Evolution drives all life to reproduce. Humans evolved to desire control over their environments, but unfortunately most of our existence was in scientific darkness and ignorance. The world in our early existence, long before written language was invented, humans made bad guesses as to why things happened. We simply made our very horrible guesses more complex when we invented written languages.

Religion is a placebo at best, while it does create social order, it is still not a requirement for evolution to occur. Humans are the only species in evolution that has religion and gods.

Religion is not required for life to exist. Claims of the super natural are simply human's ignorance reflecting the social norms parents pass down to the next generation.

(July 9, 2017 at 10:23 am)Lutrinae Wrote: I beg to differ.

Quote:In Greek mythology, Gaia (/ˈɡeɪ.ə/ or /ˈɡaɪ.ə/ from Ancient Greek Γαῖα, a poetical form of Γῆ Gē, "land" or "earth"[1]), also spelled Gaea, is the personification of the Earth[2] and one of the Greek primordial deities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_(mythology)

In ancient Greek mythology, yes, and even today some celebrate the 'earth godess' but by and large, modern Gaianism is closer to Celtic pagan spirit worship than anything else.

The belief system I think you're describing is basically just something you've welcomed into your life to make you happy. It doesn't sound like you're trying to convince other people to join you in your spiritual quest, and if it's not detrimental to your social and emotional well-being, then you should think the way you want. 

If you feel you have a need to believe in something because it brings you comfort, then you should take the necessary steps to secure your peace and happiness. Maybe feeling that there's some higher power just makes you feel more secure. This is your life, and you should live it your way. 

You owe no explanations to anyone, and if anyone argues with you over the privately held thoughts that you have in your head (that are there to bring you comfort and peace, not them), or if they try to pick them apart to debunk your way of thinking, or if they have trouble respecting you for not thinking exactly like them, then trust me on this one thing: Those people are maladjusted fucks, and should be ignored.

You do you.