In reading that ^^ and in all of this discussion, and my own reflection...I've just had an epiphany. And it's basically how can something that I honestly don't believe in from a logical/factual standpoint, bring me comfort? How can something that my mind doesn't really accept anymore, bring me emotional comfort? So maybe, all this time, it's been me...comforting me. And calling it god. Why was it so hard for me to give myself credit? Idk.

I've never seen myself as that strong, honestly...but I must have been. Pardon me while I sit here in awe over this revelation lol, I didn't even feel this way when I identified as an atheist a few years ago, but this is something. I've been capable all along.

Hearts and minds.

So, I guess all that's left is to sign your name in blood on this contract and get to the business of rendering fat from boiled babes?


(OFC it's been you, who else is in your head? Even if there were a god it would still have been you. In times of emotional stress -and every other hour of every day- our brain floods itself with anti-depressants so that we don't get so mired up the wolves catch us offguard and eat our soft bits. Things just a high functioning junkie.)

And it's not even like the placebo effect. At least with those, you've got damn good reason to think that medical doctors are giving you something they've studied and found to be a viable treatment for whatever you're seeing them for. No gods have that kind of credibility.

(July 10, 2017 at 2:33 pm)Succubus Wrote: For those who are of a  "spiritual but not religious" nature, please define spiritual.
No snippage of previous posts please; I'm looking for a definition of 'spiritual'.

According to the Bible in Acts 23:8 (NLT) it's possible to be religious but not spiritual.

"...for the Sadducees say there is no resurrection or angels or spirits, but the Pharisees believe in all of these."

(July 10, 2017 at 11:20 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: In reading that ^^ and in all of this discussion, and my own reflection...I've just had an epiphany. And it's basically how can something that I honestly don't believe in from a logical/factual standpoint, bring me comfort? How can something that my mind doesn't really accept anymore, bring me emotional comfort? So maybe, all this time, it's been me...comforting me. And calling it god. Why was it so hard for me to give myself credit? Idk.

I've never seen myself as that strong, honestly...but I must have been. Pardon me while I sit here in awe over this revelation lol, I didn't even feel this way when I identified as an atheist a few years ago, but this is something. I've been capable all along.

*decloak*

If I may be so bold, this epiphany is exactly what religion aims to nullify.  After all, if people were capable of helping themselves/others through times of pain, then what need would there be for gods?

From the outside looking in, whenever I see people, especially Christians, say that they're nothing, or, even worse, terrible and it's only through their god's grace that they have any value whatsoever, I want to scream.  Because it's an incredibly unhealthy mindset, one that's purposely engineered by the religion itself to maintain dependency.

Theists, especially Christians, like to frame god as a benevolent parent.  Yet, when one says they don't need god, they freak the fuck out.  That has always struck me as being incredibly odd, since one of the main goals of parenthood is to create children that will one day be confident and independent.  So, even if there were a god, I'd think it'd be happy to see its creations stop metaphorically living in its basement of faith to move on to bigger and better things.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than to say: having confidence in yourself, and believing that you're capable of coping on your own, isn't a sin.  It's not arrogance.  It's just another stage in your own personal development.

*recloaking*

Dang Kevin, you hit this out of the park, and it’s amazing how some of you know what I’m feeling. Yes, I’ve always felt a sense of arrogance if I exhibit confidence ‘’on my own,’’ even if I wasn’t fully aware of it. I’m having an awesome day, just wallowing in some new ideas about life and me.

Decloak more often!

(July 11, 2017 at 10:23 am)KevinM1 Wrote:

(July 10, 2017 at 11:20 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: In reading that ^^ and in all of this discussion, and my own reflection...I've just had an epiphany. And it's basically how can something that I honestly don't believe in from a logical/factual standpoint, bring me comfort? How can something that my mind doesn't really accept anymore, bring me emotional comfort? So maybe, all this time, it's been me...comforting me. And calling it god. Why was it so hard for me to give myself credit? Idk.

I've never seen myself as that strong, honestly...but I must have been. Pardon me while I sit here in awe over this revelation lol, I didn't even feel this way when I identified as an atheist a few years ago, but this is something. I've been capable all along.

*decloak*

If I may be so bold, this epiphany is exactly what religion aims to nullify.  After all, if people were capable of helping themselves/others through times of pain, then what need would there be for gods?

From the outside looking in, whenever I see people, especially Christians, say that they're nothing, or, even worse, terrible and it's only through their god's grace that they have any value whatsoever, I want to scream.  Because it's an incredibly unhealthy mindset, one that's purposely engineered by the religion itself to maintain dependency.

Theists, especially Christians, like to frame god as a benevolent parent.  Yet, when one says they don't need god, they freak the fuck out.  That has always struck me as being incredibly odd, since one of the main goals of parenthood is to create children that will one day be confident and independent.  So, even if there were a god, I'd think it'd be happy to see its creations stop metaphorically living in its basement of faith to move on to bigger and better things.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than to say: having confidence in yourself, and believing that you're capable of coping on your own, isn't a sin.  It's not arrogance.  It's just another stage in your own personal development.

*recloaking*

I agree, And a parent wouldn't punish his children literally forever for making mistakes. A parent wouldn't command their child to love and obey them (this one doesn't anyway) and a parent eventually dies and leaves his/her kids in peace.

(July 11, 2017 at 10:23 am)KevinM1 Wrote: I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than to say: having confidence in yourself, and believing that you're capable of coping on your own, isn't a sin.  It's not arrogance.  It's just another stage in your own personal development.

*recloaking*

As a point of esoterica...the story of jesus walking on water -attempts- to communicate this through a common and recognizable narrative tradition...but for whatever reason, fails to do so in the minds of the faithful.  It becomes a paltry miracle, instead.  Magic man has buoyant feet.

(July 10, 2017 at 11:20 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: I've just had an epiphany. And it's basically how can something that I honestly don't believe in from a logical/factual standpoint, bring me comfort? How can something that my mind doesn't really accept anymore, bring me emotional comfort? So maybe, all this time, it's been me...comforting me. And calling it god. Why was it so hard for me to give myself credit? Idk.

I've never seen myself as that strong, honestly...but I must have been. Pardon me while I sit here in awe over this revelation lol, I didn't even feel this way when I identified as an atheist a few years ago, but this is something. I've been capable all along.

Bingo!

"Me ... comforting me. And calling it god."

Similarly, I've often said that the only morality that exists is societal morality -- the net corpus of explicit and implicit negotiations between people about how to coexist and collaborate. But religion claims to have invented it, and to sustain it -- and even there, they use god as a proxy. God invented it, god sustains it. Yet the only morality a Christian has is the same morality a non-Christian has. They just ascribe a different origin story to it, and add extra features and prohibitions and such, so that "outsiders" can be accused of being licentious for not being as strict in some areas as the religion is.

Same thing here ... the only comfort is what you make for yourself or receive from other humans ... you have just been assigning that to god and assuming you can't obtain it anywhere else. It's just operant conditioning.

Another parallel is Christians thanking god for, say, eradicating cancer in someone -- when all along it was the doctors, the medicine, and their immune system that did the job.

Have a GREAT day ... bask in the revelation!

(July 11, 2017 at 11:02 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(July 11, 2017 at 10:23 am)KevinM1 Wrote: I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than to say: having confidence in yourself, and believing that you're capable of coping on your own, isn't a sin.  It's not arrogance.  It's just another stage in your own personal development.

*recloaking*

As a point of esoterica...the story of jesus walking on water -attempts- to communicate this through a common and recognizable narrative tradition...but for whatever reason, fails to do so in the minds of the faithful.  It becomes a paltry miracle, instead.  Magic man has buoyant feet.

I think part of that passage is designed to get believers believing that with Jesus, they can do the impossible from a human pov. It's those very passages that work to erode one's own confidence even though it might not seem that way. Over time, you go from thinking that you can't do the impossible without Jesus to thinking you can't do anything without him.