(August 18, 2017 at 3:32 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 2:47 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I was answering LadyForCammus. She asked what it says about someone who was peacefully protesting against the statue removal and then stuck around after the nazis showed up. I thought she was implying that there were non nazis protesting there first.

Apologies, CL.  I misread your post.  I thought it said, "were protesting with those guys."

Oh. No, no one I know was protesting.  

I have some friends who have voiced that they think it's stupid to take down those statues because they see it as part of history and they don't believe the civil war was motivated by slavery. I'm just saying, I don't think having that opinion necessarily makes these people racist.

(August 18, 2017 at 3:08 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But you can point something out to a person and they can still not agree with you. Maybe they just genuinely don't agree that their view of history is incorrect and objectively racist.

Do you give their views equal regard? At some point or another you're going to need to face the evidence and make an informed decision. All your hand-wringing "what-ifs" don't seem to be based in reality.

The reality is that there has long been a white supremacist movement here in America. That movement planned this rally precisely because the statue honored a man who fought to keep American blacks enslaved. The marchers waved swastika flags, threw the NaZi salute, and initiated murderous violence. These are the facts.

What perspective of theirs might you think justifies their behavior? Their overweening concern for statuary? Or their apathy about the status of black Americans even in this day and age?

Many NaZis deny the occurrence of the Holocaust, too. It doesn't mean their views merit consideration, much less defense.[Edit: Steel got there first].

(August 18, 2017 at 3:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 3:32 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Apologies, CL.  I misread your post.  I thought it said, "were protesting with those guys."

Oh. No, no one I know was protesting.  

I have some friends who have voiced that they think it's stupid to take down those statues because they see it as part of history and they don't believe the civil war was motivated by slavery. I'm just saying, I don't think having that opinion necessarily makes these people racist.

HOLY FUCK AND WHO CARES....... One side was trying to end slavery and the other was trying to keep slavery, regardless of personal opinion.

I am seriously having a hard time understanding why it is so hard to simply admit, "SLAVERY WAS BAD"

If it is, then the monuments to those who fought to kept it need to be taken out of the context of being glorified as heros. And relegated to museums and history books without the context of glorifying them as heros.

WHY is that so hard to understand. It should be a no brainer.

Ah lefty blondes! Whatever would we do without 'em?..
(Wonder which bit of this they don't like?)- Paul said"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28 )

Quote:I have some friends who have voiced that they think it's stupid to take down those statues because they see it as part of history

Yup and some Nazi sympathizers protested the removal of Nazi statues because it was not about race .

Quote:and they don't believe the civil war was motivated by slavery.

Cognitive dissidence is a bitch . And there are again Nazi's who would argue the Reich was not about killing jews.

Quote:I'm just saying, I don't think having that opinion necessarily makes these people racist.

See above

(August 18, 2017 at 3:42 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 3:37 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Oh. No, no one I know was protesting.  

I have some friends who have voiced that they think it's stupid to take down those statues because they see it as part of history and they don't believe the civil war was motivated by slavery. I'm just saying, I don't think having that opinion necessarily makes these people racist.

HOLY FUCK AND WHO CARES....... One side was trying to end slavery and the other was trying to keep slavery, regardless of personal opinion.

I am seriously having a hard time understanding why it is so hard to simply admit, "SLAVERY WAS BAD"

If it is, then the monuments to those who fought to kept it need to be taken out of the context of being glorified as heros. And relegated to museums and history books without the context of glorifying them as heros.

WHY is that so hard to understand. It should be a no brainer.

Who is not admitting slavery was bad? Besides those nazis, whom we can all agree are racist mofos, no one else here is saying slavery wasn't bad.

(August 18, 2017 at 3:24 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 3:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Yeah, and someone can disagree with me when I insist the Holocaust happened. Should I refrain from calling that person an anti-semite?

Well, I don't think that's an equivalent analogy. That would be like saying slavery never happened, not that the war wasn't about slavery. 

But actually, I would refrain from calling that person anti semite. IMHO, if someone honestly believes the holocaust was made up, that just makes them a cuckoo conspiracy theorist. It doesn't indicate that they're prejudice against Jewish people, in my opinion.

You're missing the point. I am not talking about the specifics of the history denial, it's the history denial itself. You're bending over backwards to equivocate racism/bigotry out of this equation. I have yet to meet a Holocaust denier that was just a conspiracy theorist nutbag. They are sort of definitionally driven by anti-semitism to call the Holocaust a hoax.

(August 18, 2017 at 3:48 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Besides those nazis, whom we can all agree are racist mofos, no one else here is saying slavery wasn't bad.

And yet here you are, suggesting that we ought to look at matters from their perspective.

People who deny history, deny it for a reason. That is, doing so fits their agenda.

Honestly, I'm not even sure I fully understand what we are arguing about.

Are yall trying to convince me to say that everyone in America who is against the removal of those statues is a racist, one way or the other? I'm sorry, but I'm not going to label all these people as racists for this reason. It's not really how I roll.

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(August 18, 2017 at 4:00 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(August 18, 2017 at 3:48 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Besides those nazis, whom we can all agree are racist mofos, no one else here is saying slavery wasn't bad.

And yet here you are, suggesting that we ought to look at matters from their perspective.

From the Nazi's perspective? No, I never said that. The Nazi's have made their perspective quite clear already, and it is a racist one. That's their whole premise.