(August 19, 2017 at 10:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 10:24 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: CL, I think what you might not realize is that a lot of people who are racist don't consider themselves racist.  For instance, if I were to ask my dad today, 'hey, are you racist against African Americans?' his answer would be somewhere along the lines of, 'No, I'm not racist.  I just don't understand why so many black people are lazy, and would rather sell drugs and live off of welfare, than get a job."  Maybe that's all he saw through his tunnel vision growing up in a small, poverty-stricken village, with essentially zero opportunities for education beyond high school.  

Whatever the reason, his position is rooted in ignorance; in a baseless, demonstrably false stereotype.  As an adult he's thrown his lot in with a racist ideology, despite the fact that he doesn't necessarily "mean" it.  

What practical difference is there between an ignorant racist and a willfully ignorant racist?  From the standpoint of how these opinions affect our fellow humans and society at large, there is no difference.  The outcome is the same: perpetuation of racist attitudes through out the fabric of our culture.

Racism is what it is, whether or not an individual "means to be," or not.

I would agree with that. But saying black folks are lazy, etc, IS in and of itself a prejudice.

Correct.  Even though some of those people might believe that prejudice is a fact.  That's my whole point.

As far as Neo goes; trying to put MLK on the same level is Robert E. Lee, if not racist, is pretty shitty to say the least.  It's also a terrible argument for his position.

(August 19, 2017 at 11:07 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 10:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I would agree with that. But saying black folks are lazy, etc, IS in and of itself a prejudice.

Correct.  Even though some of those people might believe that prejudice is a fact.  That's my whole point.

As far as Neo goes; trying to put MLK on the same level is Robert E. Lee, if not racist, is pretty shitty to say the least.  It's also a terrible argument for his position.

I saw his comment about MLK. 

He can clarify, but I did not take that as him equating the 2. Because of the context he said it in and the argument he was making, I took that as him saying that many men in history have big flaws, but we still recognize them as having played a major part in American History. He wasn't saying that Lee was as good a person as MLK or anything like that. 

I also don't think MLK being black was why he picked MLK as the example. I think he was just looking for the most extreme example possible so that he could make his point. He went with MLK because MLK is clearly an extremely respected and recognized historical figure, despite his flaws (womanizing/cheating ways). 

Anyway, Neo can correct me if I'm wrong. That's just how I took it, that's why I'm not calling him a racist over it. I agree though it wasn't a good example, because as Thump pointed out, it's about what each of them is remembered for. Lee (even if he was a decent person in the context of his time), is remembered specifically as the man who led the Confederacy... the side that lost the war in an attempt to split the country. MLK is remembered as the man who fought for black rights, not as the man who constantly cheated on his wife.

(August 19, 2017 at 9:46 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 9:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think you misunderstood my point. I don't think African Americans should *ever* be called the N word by a white person. I wasnt trying to say "if you can do it I can too", or anything like that.

I guess you did not make that clear. Ok, I agree. But moreso done out of hate. In the context of history or satire when not done out of hate, with the consent of those involved that is different. But in general I agree. It certainly would not be wise to go out into public and use that word in front of people you do not know. 

If you did not notice Thena was poking fun of A-Theist who stepped in it making assumptions, and I used the word Negro, while not the "n" word still. Thena and I were making fun of many not understanding why blacks get "uppity". I want blacks to be "uppity", because I don't think they owe whites any coddling of their insecurities. I support equality, not any bullshit back of the bus crap. 

I didn't step into anything. Thena either misunderstood what I said or she purposely tried to make the intent of my comment into something totally different from what I said. All I meant, was, that I thought Thena was one of the nicer and more rational forum members here. So, I never expected her to so freely use the "N' word and to be so bigoted as to call the black people who supported the Stars and Bars and Confederate monuments, "Uncle Toms" and "Step'n Fetches", all because they don't march lock step to the expectations and demands of Stalinist radicalism. I'm a bit surprised at you too, Brain less. I know you can be a bitchy dopey dumb fuck most of the time, but I would never have expected the word coming from you, either. Especially since how you're constantly railing to an obsession against the GOP and conservatives as being racists, anti lgbt, gun toters, Bible Thumpers, hi dee hi dee ho and yada yada yada. I don't care in what context it's used I don't think it's appropriate in any circumstance. That's something I would expect from the bigoted closet racist asshole members like Minifullofshit or Khemi Kal Kan.

I suppose I would be a poopyhead for noting that applying MLK's famous criteria upon MLK is not PC . . . .

(August 19, 2017 at 1:43 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 9:46 am)Brian37 Wrote: I guess you did not make that clear. Ok, I agree. But moreso done out of hate. In the context of history or satire when not done out of hate, with the consent of those involved that is different. But in general I agree. It certainly would not be wise to go out into public and use that word in front of people you do not know. 

If you did not notice Thena was poking fun of A-Theist who stepped in it making assumptions, and I used the word Negro, while not the "n" word still. Thena and I were making fun of many not understanding why blacks get "uppity". I want blacks to be "uppity", because I don't think they owe whites any coddling of their insecurities. I support equality, not any bullshit back of the bus crap. 

I didn't step into anything. Thena either misunderstood what I said or she purposely tried to make the intent of my comment into something totally different from what I said. All I meant, was, that I thought Thena was one of the nicer and more rational forum members here. So, I never expected her to so freely use the "N' word and to be so bigoted as to call the black people who supported the Stars and Bars and Confederate monuments, "Uncle Toms" and "Step'n Fetches", all because they don't march lock step to the expectations and demands of Stalinist radicalism. I'm a bit surprised at you too, Brain less. I know you can be a bitchy dopey dumb fuck most of the time, but I would never have expected the word coming from you, either. Especially since how you're constantly railing to an obsession against the GOP and conservatives as being racists, anti lgbt, gun toters, Bible Thumpers, hi dee hi dee ho and yada yada yada. I don't care in what context it's used I don't think it's appropriate in any circumstance. That's something I would expect from the bigoted closet racist asshole members like Minifullofshit or Khemi Kal Kan.

Stalinist radicalism?!? 

For fuck's sake, what books or websites do you read that you come up with that in this context?

(August 19, 2017 at 1:50 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I suppose I would be a poopyhead for noting that applying MLK's famous criteria upon MLK is not PC . . . .

(August 19, 2017 at 1:43 pm)A Theist Wrote:

(August 19, 2017 at 9:46 am)Brian37 Wrote: I guess you did not make that clear. Ok, I agree. But moreso done out of hate. In the context of history or satire when not done out of hate, with the consent of those involved that is different. But in general I agree. It certainly would not be wise to go out into public and use that word in front of people you do not know. 

If you did not notice Thena was poking fun of A-Theist who stepped in it making assumptions, and I used the word Negro, while not the "n" word still. Thena and I were making fun of many not understanding why blacks get "uppity". I want blacks to be "uppity", because I don't think they owe whites any coddling of their insecurities. I support equality, not any bullshit back of the bus crap. 

I didn't step into anything. Thena either misunderstood what I said or she purposely tried to make the intent of my comment into something totally different from what I said. All I meant, was, that I thought Thena was one of the nicer and more rational forum members here. So, I never expected her to so freely use the "N' word and to be so bigoted as to call the black people who supported the Stars and Bars and Confederate monuments, "Uncle Toms" and "Step'n Fetches", all because they don't march lock step to the expectations and demands of Stalinist radicalism. I'm a bit surprised at you too, Brain less. I know you can be a bitchy dopey dumb fuck most of the time, but I would never have expected the word coming from you, either. Especially since how you're constantly railing to an obsession against the GOP and conservatives as being racists, anti lgbt, gun toters, Bible Thumpers, hi dee hi dee ho and yada yada yada. I don't care in what context it's used I don't think it's appropriate in any circumstance. That's something I would expect from the bigoted closet racist asshole members like Minifullofshit or Khemi Kal Kan.

So predictable, when you cant admit you are on the wrong side you pull the famous, "You took that out of context."

So lets get back to the issue of this thread.

Slavery is wrong. Leaving monuments up in the context of painting that side as heros is WRONG.

You have no justification whatsoever for wanting to keep them up in the context of treating them as heros.

She has every right to be sarcastic about your insecurities in trying to defend a bullshit argument.

So if you want to keep them up, then yea, I do think you are insecure about a black person getting "uppity".

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch isn't it?

(August 19, 2017 at 1:43 pm)A Theist Wrote: I didn't step into anything. Thena either misunderstood what I said or she purposely tried to make the intent of my comment into something totally different from what I said. All I meant, was, that I thought Thena was one of the nicer and more rational forum members here.

I will not speak for Thena, only offer an interpretation that may satisfy your confusion.

Say you were the victim of a robbery at home. Some of your possessions are stolen, but aside from that, no one was hurt. Okay, we've established that this is a common place crime - no hate or hurt.

How would you feel if when you talked to other people, they responded "Well, thieves have to eat too, you know." and nothing else.

You would be upset, right? It's as if someone else's feelings take dominance over your very real victimization.

Perhaps Thena has interpreted that those who are identified as Black confederate supporters in a similar and more outrageous light - that they care more about the confederate sympathizers (which include but are not limited to: white supremacists, neo nazis, people like Dylann Roof) than the harm it does to Black children, Black men and Black women who are continually reminded that only a stones throw in time ago that they were sold, bred and destroyed as animals.

And that the same people who tormented, enslaved their race in America are being venerated at different points of history where Black people struggled for the right to vote and the right to be treated equally as whites.

Thena, please let me know if you agree or disagree with this characterization.

So Adolf can't defend his nonsense (big surprise ) And instead of manning up and admitting he's wrong . Attacks the people who point it out . And raves about Stalinist conspiracies.

Which in the context of this thread is hilarious



Two men destroying Stalin statue

Question: How much history do we actually learn from a statue? Seems to me that graven images aren't that important to knowing our past.