Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 28, 2024, 1:55 am
Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Testimony is Evidence

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
Testimony is Evidence
Amarok Offline
The Unseen
*****
Religious Views: Non believer
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation: 43
#471
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 1:52 pm
Indeed one side has evidence . The other has mental masturbation . One side has out dated concepts . The other flows with modern findings.
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

Find
Reply
SteveII Offline
Looking for Reasonable Dialog
****
Religious Views: Christian (protestant)
Posts: 3045
Threads: 14
Joined: July 7, 2014
Reputation: 14
#472
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 1:54 pm
(August 30, 2017 at 1:40 pm)Khemikal Wrote: None of that makes "witness testimony" evidence.  You;re looking for a solution as to when or if you accept witness testimony, but regardless of when or if you do or what line you draw it will still just be you -accepting- witness testimony.  

It is not transformed, by your acceptance of it, into evidence.  It is still entirely unlike those other reps of the set we've been discussing and which we call "evidence".  It still makes nothing of it's contents -evident-.  You can accept that I had a cheeseburger, or not...but neither my claim that I did nor your acceptance or rejection of my claim provides -evidence- of whether or not I had a cheeseburger.  It doesn't even provide evidence that -I- believe I had a cheeseburger (even if you accept my "witness testimony", and so you do believe).......it doesn't even provide evidence that cheeseburgers exist.........

That's a mighty fucking fail for something you accept as evidence.  But hey, you do you.

GB stated unequivocally in the post I was responding to that witness testimony is evidence--therefore I was not arguing that dead horse.
Find
Reply
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 67193
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 162
#473
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 1:56 pm (This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 1:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Can you determine, on the basis of my testimony alone, whether or not it would be rational to believe that I had a cheeseburger?  

Walk us through the rational process, without exceeding the limits of the claim "I had a cheeseburger". Keep in mind, the moment you reference something exterior to those four words, you've made a liar of yourself. Good luck.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply
Neo-Scholastic Offline Donators
Donator
*****
Religious Views: Non-denominational Christian
Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation: 54
#474
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 2:02 pm (This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 2:04 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(August 30, 2017 at 1:56 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Can you determine, on the basis of my testimony alone, whether or not it would be rational to believe that I had a cheeseburger?  

Depends on whether or not I assume you have good moral character. Is that a problem?
Find
Reply
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 67193
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 162
#475
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 2:03 pm
That would be exterior to my "witness testimony".  Next.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply
Amarok Offline
The Unseen
*****
Religious Views: Non believer
Posts: 11697
Threads: 117
Joined: November 5, 2016
Reputation: 43
#476
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 2:09 pm
(August 30, 2017 at 2:03 pm)Khemikal Wrote: That would be exterior to my "witness testimony".  Next.

It's simple they can't .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

Find
Reply
LadyForCamus Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation: 92
#477
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 3:15 pm
What if I prefaced it with, "everything that comes out of Khemikal's mouth is divine and inerrant."
Would that help with the decision-making process? 😉
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Find
Reply
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 67193
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 162
#478
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 3:48 pm
It would certainly help to get the religious throwing money at my face, if history is any indicator. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply
Neo-Scholastic Offline Donators
Donator
*****
Religious Views: Non-denominational Christian
Posts: 8711
Threads: 128
Joined: March 1, 2012
Reputation: 54
#479
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 4:07 pm (This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 4:08 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(August 30, 2017 at 2:03 pm)Khemikal Wrote: That would be exterior to my "witness testimony".  Next.

I see. Then all you're doing is setting up a straw man by saying that the person doing the testifying has nothing to do with the testimony he or she gives. It's like saying people cannot consider the author's intent when reading a book.
Find
Reply
LadyForCamus Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation: 92
#480
RE: Testimony is Evidence
August 30, 2017 at 4:52 pm (This post was last modified: August 30, 2017 at 5:59 pm by LadyForCamus.)
(August 30, 2017 at 1:37 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(August 29, 2017 at 11:37 pm)The Gentleman Bastard Wrote: Well, I've supplied evidence for my stance. Perhaps you could do the same? Not a logical argument as you so love to do, but actual evidence.

I don't need to. The evidence is the evidence. It's the conclusions you draw from the evidence that is in question. Your position seems to be:

1. Witness testimony is unreliable for some % of cases
2. We don't know when a mistake will be made
3. Therefore witness testimony cannot be relied upon by itself

But the conclusion does not necessarily (in every case...therefore must) follow from the premises which is evident when we look at the opposing view:

1. Witness testimony is unreliable for some % of cases
2. We don't know when a mistake will be made 
3' Therefore care must be given when relying solely on witness testimony

This conclusion is completely circular and meaningless.  You're essentially saying:

1. Witness testimony is wrong sometimes 
2. We don't know when it will be wrong
3. Therefore, we must be careful not to accept wrong testimony, and only accept correct testimony

Your conclusion is just a re-stating of your premises, and to further its pointlessness, you offer no objective means of distinguishing between reliable/unreliable testimony as all your metrics are totally subjective:  character, track record, etc., experience.  

Totally valid argument. You've essentially logically argued into existence that witness testimony is unreliable as a form of evidence, lol.

Thanks! 😁
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Philosophy v
Testimony is Evidence

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Video Neurosurgeon Provides Evidence Against Materialism Guard of Guardians 41 6052 June 17, 2019 at 10:40 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential Edwardo Piet 82 15068 April 29, 2018 at 1:57 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  Testimony: Are we being hypocritical? LadyForCamus 86 11491 November 22, 2017 at 11:37 pm
Last Post: Martian Mermaid
  Is the statement "Claims demand evidence" always true? Mudhammam 268 42112 February 3, 2017 at 6:44 pm
Last Post: WisdomOfTheTrees
  Anecdotal Evidence RoadRunner79 395 66759 December 14, 2016 at 2:53 pm
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities? joseph_ 150 15714 September 3, 2016 at 11:26 am
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  The nature of evidence Wryetui 150 19209 May 6, 2016 at 6:21 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  Witness Evidence RoadRunner79 248 43278 December 17, 2015 at 7:23 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence RoadRunner79 184 35240 November 13, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Miracles are useless as evidence Pizza 0 1303 March 15, 2015 at 7:37 pm
Last Post: Pizza



Users browsing this thread: 26 Guest(s)