(August 13, 2011 at 4:49 am)orogenicman Wrote: Faith is the belief in something not in evidence.http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatfaith.html
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An argument against Adam and Eve
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  (August 13, 2011 at 5:24 am)Emanuel Wrote:(August 13, 2011 at 4:49 am)orogenicman Wrote: Faith is the belief in something not in evidence.http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatfaith.html Really? Your counter argument is a cartoon? Really? Sorry, chap, I know a lot of religious types have real issues with academia, but you don't get to make up your own definitions to words,and then expect people to understand what you are saying, much less take you seriously. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith. If you had evidence or proof, you wouldn't need to have faith.
'The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and seal. It could not be expressed better.'
-- Samuel "Mark Twain" Clemens "I think that in the discussion of natural problems we ought to begin not with the scriptures, but with experiments, demonstrations, and observations". - Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) "In short, Meyer has shown that his first disastrous book was not a fluke: he is capable of going into any field in which he has no training or research experience and botching it just as badly as he did molecular biology. As I've written before, if you are a complete amateur and don't understand a subject, don't demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect by writing a book about it and proving your ignorance to everyone else! " - Dr. Donald Prothero 
Not to mention, the entire video doesn't actually deal with what any of us have said here, but rather what Mark Twain once said.
If people saw the empty tomb, saw Jesus resurrected, etc, then they would be basing their beliefs on evidence, and not faith. However, you have not seen the empty tomb, nor have you seen Jesus resurrected; you've only read about these in a book which contains multiple contradictions and historical inaccuracies. This is why your beliefs are based on faith and not evidence; all the "evidence" you've seen is merely hearsay. 
Anymouse
Worshipper of Caffeinea, Goddess of Coffee.  Religious Views: Atheist (formerly Wiccan, with a Discordian bent). Erotic Romance novel editor. Handfasted to BethK, the smartest, coolest, sexiest, brightest atheist here. RE: An argument against Adam and Eve
August 13, 2011 at 6:40 am
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2011 at 6:53 am by Anymouse.)
(August 3, 2011 at 3:16 am)Godschild Wrote: My God has a great love for me, I see it in my life, experience it every day. He loves you too Cinjin whether you like it or not, your thoughts and disbelief about God changes nothing about his nature and it is His nature to love all of mankind. You are right; truth does normally stand on its own, except when it is suppressed. Propaganda works well that way. Other than a book which its own adherents admit has been -ah- "mistranslated," you have no more proof the things you see in your life are the works of your God, chance, random individuals, my own gods, or anything else. I could base a religion on any number of clearly fictional novels (wait, that's already been done, for example Robert A Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land"). That doesn't make the claims of those religious "proof" because they have a book (and Heinlein disavowed those folk at Green Egg anyway). The one thing that many Christians desire to show is "they have proof." Of course, Thomas was rebuked for requiring it. Since, regardless of the particular flavour of Christianity, the basis of the Faithful is the Bible, the proof must be there. Not that it is a book (it is), nor that it is old (it is that too), but that it details facts. There is no proof for that. There can never be proof for that. And in the moment someone were to demonstrate that all, or at least a substantial part, of the Bible were factual, it would cease in that instant being faith and religious belief, and become science. The whole point of faith is believing without proof. No one alive to-day was around during Eden, or the Flood, or the parting of the Red Sea, or the life and times of Jesus; and not a shred of evidence exists for any of these events. Or ten thousand other events in the Old and New Testaments. What exists is summed up in the rebuke to Thomas: John 20:24-29. Scepticism and proof are to be eschewed: blessed are those who believe without seeing, without proof. Trying to present "proof" on such a forum as this, or anyplace else, is a slap in the face to Jesus's lesson to Thomas. There is a small problem with that, aside from the religious aspects: someone who will believe without proof, if not very careful, can be led to believe anything, couched in the right language and citing the right authority. For once you accept a single logical fallacy (knowledge without evidence), other logical fallacies (appeal to authority, non-sequituers, &c.) become that much easier, and your "God-given reason" becomes nothing more than the thing you trust least. And, my understanding according to Christian doctrine, is that God created mankind. That would include mankind's reason. Nowhere in Genesis (or anywhere else) does it mention God's enemy having anything to do with the creation of humankind. To deny your reason and logic is to deny the very gifts you claim come from your God. Would that not be the same as denying God himself? (Of course, that is not an unpardonable sin, only denying the Holy Spirit, according to the NT, but that comes dangerously close.) If you truly believe that humanity is meant to glorify God, why would trying to understand that creation of his through the tools he gave not do him that glory? I have never understood that part of Christianity, and I doubt I will ever have it satisfactorily explained. James "Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her."
Intellectual surrender seems a strange gift to offer the creator of the human mind, I agree.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 Quote:(3rd August 2011 08:16)Godschild Wrote: My God has a great love for me, I see it in my life, experience it every day. He loves you too Cinjin whether you like it or not, your thoughts and disbelief about God changes nothing about his nature and it is His nature to love all of mankind.As far as adding nothing new don't need to when it's the truth, truth can and does stand on it's own. According to the bible, your god hates: Homosexuals, people belonging to different religions (About %70 of the worlds population), witches, bastards, and many other people. And after they did just one wrong, Adam and Eve. Your gods a mean guy. ![[Image: YAYBOOMAVAtAR1_zpse61010be.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i183.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx27%2Fkillman360%2FMy%2520GIFs%2FYAYBOOMAVAtAR1_zpse61010be.gif) The feeble mind will pray to god, the feeble mind will fall.  RE: An argument against Adam and Eve
August 15, 2011 at 2:15 am
(This post was last modified: August 15, 2011 at 2:16 am by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Quote:Your god's a mean guy. Is that British understatement for 'complete cunt' ? 
Anymouse
Worshipper of Caffeinea, Goddess of Coffee. Religious Views: Atheist (formerly Wiccan, with a Discordian bent). Erotic Romance novel editor. Handfasted to BethK, the smartest, coolest, sexiest, brightest atheist here. (August 15, 2011 at 2:15 am)padraic Wrote:Quote:Your god's a mean guy.Is that British understatement for 'complete cunt' ? No need to insult female genitalia. That should be worshiped. And it used to be, until Astarte's worshipers' were forcibly -ah- "re-educated" (slaughtered). "Be ye not lost amongst Precept of Order." - Book of Uterus, 1:5, "Principia Discordia, or How I Found Goddess and What I Did to Her When I Found Her." 
Astarte??? Ishtar?? My favourite of all the goddesses we have dreamed up.
'You can be riding high on that sow's back until suddenly you find yourself in the mud alongside her.' "The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
 (August 15, 2011 at 5:40 am)Anymouse Wrote: No need to insult female genitalia. That should be worshiped. And it used to be, until Astarte's worshipers' were forcibly -ah- "re-educated" (slaughtered). There's so much in our swears and expletives that indicate such a sexually repressed culture. One would think "fucked up" would be a good thing.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too." ... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept "(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question" ... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist |
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