(December 15, 2017 at 3:59 pm)SteveII Wrote:

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(December 15, 2017 at 3:57 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: So what were the reasons? It appears that in the beginning it was a passive revenge cult against the oppressors. Our magic will eventually punish them and reward us.

You have no clue what the NT is about do you? How about you post some passages to support your characterization? In the meantime, I will post a pretty popular series of verses called "The Romans Road" that indicates something entirely different. 

Romans 3:23 NKJV – for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:10 NKJV – As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 5:12 NKJV – Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned–
Romans 6:23 NKJV – For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 5:8 NKJV – But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9-10 NKJV – that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
Romans 10:13 NKJV – For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
Romans 10:17 NKJV – So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Nice cherry picking. How about all of Romans 3 and 5? And even what you picked states that if you don't believe you wont be saved. 

If not saved (rewarded) then what are they,...............um............ punished (revenge). But not by the believers (passive), but by magic (cult).

(December 15, 2017 at 2:51 pm)SteveII Wrote: @Dnte

Don't imagine that Minimalist has any valid points here simply because I don't anwer. I don't ever respond to him out of principle (he falls short of my "has character" threshold). If you (or anyone) wants to take up his argument, I will respond.

Don't worry Steve II, I've felt the hostility of these people. I have only a few days on here and one of them already said they wanted to report me for saying a joke and another one implied I was an asshole! Me? What's got into them anyway? You and the few christians on here are one of the few people that are not bitter, belligerent or stuck up. I imagined that some atheists were like this but not to that extreme. It kinda makes me miss christianforums where things and people are... very different. Now instead of getting "god bless you" I get "you must tell people whenever you're being sarcastic because if you don't you're an asshole." They think I'm a troll! I don't know if I'll last long in a place like this. How do you do it? 

I accused you of heresy as I recall . . .

(December 15, 2017 at 9:39 pm)Dnte Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 2:51 pm)SteveII Wrote: @Dnte

Don't imagine that Minimalist has any valid points here simply because I don't anwer. I don't ever respond to him out of principle (he falls short of my "has character" threshold). If you (or anyone) wants to take up his argument, I will respond.

Don't worry Steve II, I've felt the hostility of these people. I have only a few days on here and one of them already said they wanted to report me for saying a joke and another one implied I was an asshole! Me? What's got into them anyway? You and the few christians on here are one of the few people that are not bitter, belligerent or stuck up. I imagined that some atheists were like this but not to that extreme. It kinda makes me miss christianforums where things and people are... very different. Now instead of getting "god bless you" I get "you must tell people whenever you're being sarcastic because if you don't you're an asshole." They think I'm a troll! I don't know if I'll last long in a place like this. How do you do it? 

Can you believe it! I was banned from christainforums in less then 2 months and that, after being banned for a month having gotten 3 strikes! They said I was a "lewd, blaspheming heretic". I don't go for the Nicene Creed which is there central theme.

Regarding your OP, the word translated as "miracle", in the Greek, means: display of power. It has to do with something preternatural and not "supernatural". Notice Jesus used some spit and dirt to help a blind man see: not pure "magic". He helped another blind man to see and the church wonders why He had to do two "Miracles". Well, one display of His deity was to reconnect the optic nerve, the other to correct the refractive error caused from never before using his eyes.

Water into wine: Einstein's energy transference--duh! Appearing in a room: string theory changing vibration--hello!

If you care to think of it, there is no so called "miracle" that cannot be explained through physics whether yet understood or not. Remember, physics is plastic and is constantly molded. Same with theology! I think that eventually we'll all have an "ah hah" moment!

(December 15, 2017 at 5:45 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 3:59 pm)SteveII Wrote:

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You have no clue what the NT is about do you? How about you post some passages to support your characterization? In the meantime, I will post a pretty popular series of verses called "The Romans Road" that indicates something entirely different. 

Romans 3:23 NKJV – for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Romans 3:10 NKJV – As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 5:12 NKJV – Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned–
Romans 6:23 NKJV – For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 5:8 NKJV – But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 10:9-10 NKJV – that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
Romans 10:13 NKJV – For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
Romans 10:17 NKJV – So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Nice cherry picking. How about all of Romans 3 and 5? And even what you picked states that if you don't believe you wont be saved. 

If not saved (rewarded) then what are they,...............um............ punished (revenge). But not by the believers (passive), but by magic (cult).

LOL, yes, verses showing the whole theme of Christianity is "cherry-picking". Here's a test: In order to have a quality discussion with intellectual integrity, opponents must be able to articulate the opposing person's view with accuracy and clarity. Can you do that? If I had to write three sentences about what Christianity is all about, what would I write?

(December 16, 2017 at 10:55 am)SteveII Wrote: LOL, yes, verses showing the whole theme of Christianity is "cherry-picking". Here's a test: In order to have a quality discussion with intellectual integrity, opponents must be able to articulate the opposing person's view with accuracy and clarity. Can you do that? If I had to write three sentences about what Christianity is all about, what would I write?

Quality??? Paleese. As defined by who, you?????? What a laugh. 

I really don't care what you write because the original premise behind the belief is nonsense. You'd probably write about all of the wonderful things. Go ahead, write. But it should only be about things/ideas that can only be found only through belief. Don't talk about love, forgiveness, charity, hope, .................. All of those things can be had without belief.

(December 16, 2017 at 10:55 am)SteveII Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 5:45 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Nice cherry picking. How about all of Romans 3 and 5? And even what you picked states that if you don't believe you wont be saved. 

If not saved (rewarded) then what are they,...............um............ punished (revenge). But not by the believers (passive), but by magic (cult).

LOL, yes, verses showing the whole theme of Christianity is "cherry-picking". Here's a test: In order to have a quality discussion with intellectual integrity, opponents must be able to articulate the opposing person's view with accuracy and clarity. Can you do that? If I had to write three sentences about what Christianity is all about, what would I write?

Based on my observations, many people fall short of the standard in bold.  With that said, during a debate between two people, A and B, it seems that the discussion would be more educational and less derailing if, after A has presented his argument, B can only present his argument after he has clearly articulated A's view and received confirmation from A that this has been accomplished; the same standards would then apply to A after B has stated his argument and so on.  What do you think? How can we go about making that more commonplace here or elsewhere?

P.S. Interestingly enough, based on my understanding, this was actually part of the scholastic education debating procedure during the middle ages.

(December 16, 2017 at 1:48 am)Haipule Wrote:

(December 15, 2017 at 9:39 pm)Dnte Wrote: Don't worry Steve II, I've felt the hostility of these people. I have only a few days on here and one of them already said they wanted to report me for saying a joke and another one implied I was an asshole! Me? What's got into them anyway? You and the few christians on here are one of the few people that are not bitter, belligerent or stuck up. I imagined that some atheists were like this but not to that extreme. It kinda makes me miss christianforums where things and people are... very different. Now instead of getting "god bless you" I get "you must tell people whenever you're being sarcastic because if you don't you're an asshole." They think I'm a troll! I don't know if I'll last long in a place like this. How do you do it? 

Can you believe it! I was banned from christainforums in less then 2 months and that, after being banned for a month having gotten 3 strikes! They said I was a "lewd, blaspheming heretic". I don't go for the Nicene Creed which is there central theme.

Regarding your OP, the word translated as "miracle", in the Greek, means: display of power. It has to do with something preternatural and not "supernatural". Notice Jesus used some spit and dirt to help a blind man see: not pure "magic". He helped another blind man to see and the church wonders why He had to do two "Miracles". Well, one display of His deity was to reconnect the optic nerve, the other to correct the refractive error caused from never before using his eyes.

Water into wine: Einstein's energy transference--duh! Appearing in a room: string theory changing vibration--hello!

If you care to think of it, there is no so called "miracle" that cannot be explained through physics whether yet understood or not. Remember, physics is plastic and is constantly molded. Same with theology! I think that eventually we'll all have an "ah hah" moment!

All of the biblical miracles were written to support the idea expressed in Exodus 34:10 (TLB) =  "The Lord replied, “All right, this is the contract I am going to make with you. I will do miracles such as have never been done before anywhere in all the earth, and all the people of Israel shall see the power of the Lord—the terrible power I will display through you."

Three wise men in a row.

(December 16, 2017 at 6:46 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(December 16, 2017 at 1:48 am)Haipule Wrote: Can you believe it! I was banned from christainforums in less then 2 months and that, after being banned for a month having gotten 3 strikes! They said I was a "lewd, blaspheming heretic". I don't go for the Nicene Creed which is there central theme.

Regarding your OP, the word translated as "miracle", in the Greek, means: display of power. It has to do with something preternatural and not "supernatural". Notice Jesus used some spit and dirt to help a blind man see: not pure "magic". He helped another blind man to see and the church wonders why He had to do two "Miracles". Well, one display of His deity was to reconnect the optic nerve, the other to correct the refractive error caused from never before using his eyes.

Water into wine: Einstein's energy transference--duh! Appearing in a room: string theory changing vibration--hello!

If you care to think of it, there is no so called "miracle" that cannot be explained through physics whether yet understood or not. Remember, physics is plastic and is constantly molded. Same with theology! I think that eventually we'll all have an "ah hah" moment!

All of the biblical miracles were written to support the idea expressed in Exodus 34:10 (TLB) =  "The Lord replied, “All right, this is the contract I am going to make with you. I will do miracles such as have never been done before anywhere in all the earth, and all the people of Israel shall see the power of the Lord—the terrible power I will display through you."

"Written to support?" Not that nothing ever happened, right? ""Through you(-all)". Nothing ever happened through the Jews. In fact, there are no Jews because the one who wrote about the formation of the Jewish race, and the Nation of Israel(before it even existed), also wrote about the formation of the universe! Since the biblical account of the universe formation is completely bullshit! Then, there is no such thing as a Jew! Never even existed!

Since the bible establishes races that don't even exist then, you don't exist and the universe is bullshit! Your just having a weird dream!