(December 20, 2017 at 3:10 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Any questions?

No, but I think I should warn you that Venus of Tan-Tan may take umbrage at your estimate of when she was invented. You're off by at least a couple of orders of magnitude.

I am not a "theistic evolutionist": that is stupid. I am not an atheistic evolutionist either. I am a scientific evolutionist but, I pay no mind to premises or conclusions. However, the observations are observations. Do I believe in evolution? Yes. Do I believe in Adam and Eve? Yes. Yet, the evolution many of you are talking about is pre man or, Adam, only. Not since. I'm sorry but, mitochondrial DNA only goes back to Eve. And, I know you have an answer for that. I'm not going to buy it.

That being said, I also do not invalidate any dating system.

However, the reoccurring complete destruction of the earth since the beginning of her, make me wonder about geologic timelines.

I mean, we can't date a fossil by the substrata and, we cannot date the substrata by a fossil. That is circular reasoning. Yet, the substrata has been viciously altered over and over again! The crust of the earth is a stirred soup!

So really, who knows how old anything really is if we conceder all the catastrophes?

(December 20, 2017 at 3:52 pm)popeyespappy Wrote:

(December 20, 2017 at 3:10 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: Any questions?

No, but I think I should warn you that Venus of Tan-Tan may take umbrage at your estimate of when she was invented. You're off by at least a couple of orders of magnitude.

I specifically referred to God with a capital G, he was a particularly nauseatingly criminal and psychiatrically disturbed black sheep in the family of make belief beings that would certainly be disowned and cast out by his ancestor the Venus of Tan-Tan if either of them actually existed.

---

(December 20, 2017 at 6:50 pm)Haipule Wrote: I am not a "theistic evolutionist": that is stupid. I am not an atheistic evolutionist either. I am a scientific evolutionist but, I pay no mind to premises or conclusions. However, the observations are observations. Do I believe in evolution? Yes. Do I believe in Adam and Eve? Yes. Yet, the evolution many of you are talking about is pre man or, Adam, only. Not since. I'm sorry but, mitochondrial DNA only goes back to Eve. And, I know you have an answer for that. I'm not going to buy it.

That being said, I also do not invalidate any dating system.

However, the reoccurring complete destruction of the earth since the beginning of her, make me wonder about geologic timelines.

I mean, we can't date a fossil by the substrata and, we cannot date the substrata by a fossil. That is circular reasoning. Yet, the substrata has been viciously altered over and over again! The crust of the earth is a stirred soup!

So really, who knows how old anything really is if we conceder all the catastrophes?

So wrong in so short a post:

1. Mitochondria DNA does not go only back to eve.   That is wrong by only about 3.6 billion years.  The association between mitochondria DNA and eve is only in that all living human today carries the mitochondria DNA of one woman, named Eve in mocking tip of hat to the genesis story.  Eve was certainly not the only woman or the first woman.  Nor indeed could Eve even be the only woman of her generation of whom we are descendants.   The linear antecedent of Eve’s Mitochondria DNA in fact goes so far back that it certainly goes much further back even than the very first mitochondria 2.7 billion years ago.   You see, Mitochondria are descendants of free living prokaryotic cells with their own DNAs that likely had a lineage that stretched back all the way to the first life on earth around 3.6 billion years ago.  2.7 billion years ago some members of that lineage was ingested by the first eukaryotic cells, were not digested, but we’re able to entered into a symbiotic relationship with the eukaryotic cell host and became an organelle in the eukaryotic cell.  Between 1 and 1.7 billion years later some eukaryotic cells began to clump together and specialize, until eventually multi-cellular organisms evolved.  It took another 1 billion years or so for an multi-celluar organism to evolve that was so imaginative and self deceiving as to think there was a literal Adam and Eve and history of mitochondria dna does not go back further than eve.

2.  Earth was never completely destroyed since she first formed 4.56 billion years ago.  Recent evidence shows even the direct impact by another planet larger than Mars, which splattered so much of the earth’s mantle into the orbit that the debris coalesced into the moon, had disrupted the earth only to a surprising shallow depth, and the majority of the earth’s mantle must of remained cohesive and unmolten through earth’s entire existence.  We can tell because earth’s mantle retained most of the inventory of volatiles that it had when earth first accreted.

3.  No catastrophy ever to afflict the earth since the formation of the moon about 4.5 billion years ago is capable of resetting the radio of parent and daughter elements of all natural radioactive decay occurring in of the minerals of the surface of the earth.  Anyone who studies atomic physics are the whos that know how old things really are if we consider all the catastrophes.  Multiple independent lines of atomic decay dating muturally agree sufficiently well for us to have high confidence in their general accuracy.  We have a good chronology of the evolution of the earth over the last 4.2-4.3 billion years.  We can date most rocks that contain volcanically derived components.  We can see whether fossils were laid down naturally between layers of datable rock strata.  So yes, we are pretty confident in our dating of the earth and of fossils.  Whatever comfidence we have in these ought to be infinitely greater than any a thinking person can conceivably have in any bullshit deriving mainly from the Bible.

Those individuals who are Biblical fundamentalists need to try looking at the Moon through a telescope sometime!

(December 20, 2017 at 6:59 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(December 20, 2017 at 3:52 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: No, but I think I should warn you that Venus of Tan-Tan may take umbrage at your estimate of when she was invented. You're off by at least a couple of orders of magnitude.

I specifically referred to God with a capital G, he was a particularly nauseatingly criminal and psychiatrically disturbed black sheep in the family of make belief beings that would certainly be disowned and cast out by his ancestor the Venus of Tan-Tan if either of them actually existed.

---

(December 20, 2017 at 6:50 pm)Haipule Wrote: I am not a "theistic evolutionist": that is stupid. I am not an atheistic evolutionist either. I am a scientific evolutionist but, I pay no mind to premises or conclusions. However, the observations are observations. Do I believe in evolution? Yes. Do I believe in Adam and Eve? Yes. Yet, the evolution many of you are talking about is pre man or, Adam, only. Not since. I'm sorry but, mitochondrial DNA only goes back to Eve. And, I know you have an answer for that. I'm not going to buy it.

That being said, I also do not invalidate any dating system.

However, the reoccurring complete destruction of the earth since the beginning of her, make me wonder about geologic timelines.

I mean, we can't date a fossil by the substrata and, we cannot date the substrata by a fossil. That is circular reasoning. Yet, the substrata has been viciously altered over and over again! The crust of the earth is a stirred soup!

So really, who knows how old anything really is if we conceder all the catastrophes?

So wrong in so short a post:

1. Mitochondria DNA does not go only back to eve.   That is wrong by only about 3.6 billion years.  The association between mitochondria DNA and eve is only in that all living human today carries the mitochondria DNA of one woman, named Eve in mocking tip of hat to the genesis story.  Eve was certainly not the only woman or the first woman.  Nor indeed could Eve even be the only woman of her generation of whom we are descendants.   The linear antecedent of Eve’s Mitochondria DNA in fact goes so far back that it certainly goes much further back even than the very first mitochondria 2.7 billion years ago.   You see, Mitochondria are descendants of free living prokaryotic cells with their own DNAs that likely had a lineage that stretched back all the way to the first life on earth around 3.6 billion years ago.  2.7 billion years ago some members of that lineage was ingested by the first eukaryotic cells, were not digested, but we’re able to entered into a symbiotic relationship with the eukaryotic cell host and became an organelle in the eukaryotic cell.  Between 1 and 1.7 billion years later some eukaryotic cells began to clump together and specialize, until eventually multi-cellular organisms evolved.  It took another 1 billion years or so for an multi-celluar organism to evolve that was so imaginative and self deceiving as to think there was a literal Adam and Eve and history of mitochondria dna does not go back further than eve.

2.  Earth was never completely destroyed since she first formed 4.56 billion years ago.  Recent evidence shows even the direct impact by another planet larger than Mars, which splattered so much of the earth’s mantle into the orbit that the debris coalesced into the moon, had disrupted the earth only to a surprising shallow depth, and the majority of the earth’s mantle must of remained cohesive and unmolten through earth’s entire existence.  We can tell because earth’s mantle retained most of the inventory of volatiles that it had when earth first accreted.

3.  No catastrophy ever to afflict the earth since the formation of the moon about 4.5 billion years ago is capable of resetting the radio of parent and daughter elements of all natural radioactive decay occurring in of the minerals of the surface of the earth.  Anyone who studies atomic physics are the whos that know how old things really are if we consider all the catastrophes.  Multiple independent lines of atomic decay dating muturally agree sufficiently well for us to have high confidence in their general accuracy.  We have a good chronology of the evolution of the earth over the last 4.2-4.3 billion years.  We can date most rocks that contain volcanically derived components.  We can see whether fossils were laid down naturally between layers of datable rock strata.  So yes, we are pretty confident in our dating of the earth and of fossils.  Whatever comfidence we have in these ought to be infinitely greater than any a thinking person can conceivably have in any bullshit deriving mainly from the Bible.

Thank you so much! I was thinking about what you said about "bombardment" and snowball and thinking about glaziers, on and on. So I was contemplating the catastrophes and questioning dates. Apparently, I'm not the first--that's good!

"mocking tip of hat to the genesis story" Maybe you were there when man discovered DNA. It must have been quite a shock! I remember when the science community called her "Biped Eve". But I was fascinated to learn that American Indians are of European or Asian decent. Yet, we were taught that Columbus discovered America which he thought was India! I think that all Columbus really did was bring STD's to Europe and the world Wicked sailors!

I only trust the bible in the autographed languages that I have studied my whole life. I am not a fundamentalist. I can read what was written with out all the nonsense theology man has invented into it.

Having done so, I don't see any conflict between observed science and the bible. However, the bible is historical and not science. The bible can't give us a timeline of prehistoric events but, science can.

I once read a story of a scientist who discovered that there was a extra long day at some point in history. The bible actually states that one day was extended. I also read about that massive earthquake in Chili that was so violent that Earth's rotation slowed ever so slightly and that is known as the longest day in modern history.

You haven't mentioned a word about "Expanding Earth Theory" but I wish you would--if can.

(December 21, 2017 at 6:44 pm)Haipule Wrote: The bible actually states that one day was extended. I also read about that massive earthquake in Chili that was so violent that Earth's rotation slowed ever so slightly and that is known as the longest day in modern history.

By the story in the Bible, the day was extended to the point that it became an entire additional day. The amount of force required to stop Earth rotating for 24 hours, then start up again as normal, would have been enormous. At an absolute minimum there would have been 1000 mph winds at the equator, massive tsunamis everywhere there was any significant water, and general crap flying through the air at high speeds. And then..... it would happen in reverse 24 hours later. If the event had involved an impact of any kind you could also be looking at partial liquification of the Earth's crust, which would still be very hot, if not molten, to this day.

The Chile earthquake actually shortened the length of days, not lengthened them. By about 1.2 microseconds.

(December 21, 2017 at 6:44 pm)Haipule Wrote:

(December 20, 2017 at 6:59 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: I specifically referred to God with a capital G, he was a particularly nauseatingly criminal and psychiatrically disturbed black sheep in the family of make belief beings that would certainly be disowned and cast out by his ancestor the Venus of Tan-Tan if either of them actually existed.

---

So wrong in so short a post:

1. Mitochondria DNA does not go only back to eve.   That is wrong by only about 3.6 billion years.  The association between mitochondria DNA and eve is only in that all living human today carries the mitochondria DNA of one woman, named Eve in mocking tip of hat to the genesis story.  Eve was certainly not the only woman or the first woman.  Nor indeed could Eve even be the only woman of her generation of whom we are descendants.   The linear antecedent of Eve’s Mitochondria DNA in fact goes so far back that it certainly goes much further back even than the very first mitochondria 2.7 billion years ago.   You see, Mitochondria are descendants of free living prokaryotic cells with their own DNAs that likely had a lineage that stretched back all the way to the first life on earth around 3.6 billion years ago.  2.7 billion years ago some members of that lineage was ingested by the first eukaryotic cells, were not digested, but we’re able to entered into a symbiotic relationship with the eukaryotic cell host and became an organelle in the eukaryotic cell.  Between 1 and 1.7 billion years later some eukaryotic cells began to clump together and specialize, until eventually multi-cellular organisms evolved.  It took another 1 billion years or so for an multi-celluar organism to evolve that was so imaginative and self deceiving as to think there was a literal Adam and Eve and history of mitochondria dna does not go back further than eve.

2.  Earth was never completely destroyed since she first formed 4.56 billion years ago.  Recent evidence shows even the direct impact by another planet larger than Mars, which splattered so much of the earth’s mantle into the orbit that the debris coalesced into the moon, had disrupted the earth only to a surprising shallow depth, and the majority of the earth’s mantle must of remained cohesive and unmolten through earth’s entire existence.  We can tell because earth’s mantle retained most of the inventory of volatiles that it had when earth first accreted.

3.  No catastrophy ever to afflict the earth since the formation of the moon about 4.5 billion years ago is capable of resetting the radio of parent and daughter elements of all natural radioactive decay occurring in of the minerals of the surface of the earth.  Anyone who studies atomic physics are the whos that know how old things really are if we consider all the catastrophes.  Multiple independent lines of atomic decay dating muturally agree sufficiently well for us to have high confidence in their general accuracy.  We have a good chronology of the evolution of the earth over the last 4.2-4.3 billion years.  We can date most rocks that contain volcanically derived components.  We can see whether fossils were laid down naturally between layers of datable rock strata.  So yes, we are pretty confident in our dating of the earth and of fossils.  Whatever comfidence we have in these ought to be infinitely greater than any a thinking person can conceivably have in any bullshit deriving mainly from the Bible.

Thank you so much! I was thinking about what you said about "bombardment" and snowball and thinking about glaziers, on and on. So I was contemplating the catastrophes and questioning dates. Apparently, I'm not the first--that's good!

"mocking tip of hat to the genesis story" Maybe you were there when man discovered DNA. It must have been quite a shock! I remember when the science community called her "Biped Eve". But I was fascinated to learn that American Indians are of European or Asian decent. Yet, we were taught that Columbus discovered America which he thought was India! I think that all Columbus really did was bring STD's to Europe and the world Wicked sailors!

I only trust the bible in the autographed languages that I have studied my whole life. I am not a fundamentalist. I can read what was written with out all the nonsense theology man has invented into it.

Having done so, I don't see any conflict between observed science and the bible. However, the bible is historical and not science. The bible can't give us a timeline of prehistoric events but, science can.

I once read a story of a scientist who discovered that there was a extra long day at some point in history. The bible actually states that one day was extended. I also read about that massive earthquake in Chili that was so violent that Earth's rotation slowed ever so slightly and that is known as the longest day in modern history.

You haven't mentioned a word about "Expanding Earth Theory" but I wish you would--if can.

You folks need to stop responding to the stupidity presented by this poster. /thread

I know it won't end here, but I am on record with what a stupid fuck this poster is. You won't see me looking at or posting again in a thread that this dude initiates. FFS, one has to have limits.

(December 22, 2017 at 12:06 am)Fireball Wrote: You folks need to stop responding to the stupidity presented by this poster. /thread

Yep. I'm gonna agree with you here.
He reminds me of another poster in another atheist site. Kept asking questions that were specifically geared towards biology, evolution, geology, astronomy, etc, and then got incensed when he was told that there were better forums for him to ask those questions.
Most of the time I think these types of "questions" are just fishing for a gotcha question.

(December 21, 2017 at 11:52 pm)LostLocke Wrote:

(December 21, 2017 at 6:44 pm)Haipule Wrote: The bible actually states that one day was extended. I also read about that massive earthquake in Chili that was so violent that Earth's rotation slowed ever so slightly and that is known as the longest day in modern history.

By the story in the Bible, the day was extended to the point that it became an entire additional day. The amount of force required to stop Earth rotating for 24 hours, then start up again as normal, would have been enormous. At an absolute minimum there would have been 1000 mph winds at the equator, massive tsunamis everywhere there was any significant water, and general crap flying through the air at high speeds. And then..... it would happen in reverse 24 hours later. If the event had involved an impact of any kind you could also be looking at partial liquification of the Earth's crust, which would still be very hot, if not molten, to this day.

The Chile earthquake actually shortened the length of days, not lengthened them. By about 1.2 microseconds.

Thanks for correcting me on that Chile thing.

"If" the Earth was in a electromagnetic bubble, then everything in the bubble would be subjected to weight only, with out being subjected to G-force. Electromagnetic bubbles(sorry but, I have no other words) are fun to play with but, whenever I play with them, I am only weight and not subjected to G-force or wind. If you don't believe me? Well then, how many times have you you tried it?

I only know what the bees taught me.

Electromagnetic bubble? You played with them? Please, do share some pictures.