In the Sunni & Shiite Islamic traditions, Mohammed knew when apocalypse is coming.
It is detailed in the Hadith books of each sect; despite the Quran -Islam's source book- telling another story:

Quote:Sura 79, The Quran:
( 42 )   They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival?
( 43 )   In what [position] are you that you should mention it?
( 44 )   To your Lord is its finality.
( 45 )   You are only a warner for those who fear it.
( 46 )   It will be, on the Day they see it, as though they had not remained [in the world] except for an afternoon or a morning thereof.

Quote:Sura 7, The Quran:
( 187 )   They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, "Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly." They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, "Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most of the people do not know."

Until this day; Sunni and Shiite scholars couldn't defend the authenticity of their belief: how the hell does the Quran say that Mohammed doesn't know about apocalypse's coming; but the scholars say that he knew?

It's either Islam is contradicting itself, or the Sunni/Shiite traditions are contradicting Islam.
I believe the latter is true.

Sura 7, Verse 187 alone sets a termination for any Hadith speaking of the end; Mohammed didn't know a thing about the arrival of the hour. If we believed that the verse is divine; then only God knows when the day is coming for sure.

It is scarier than scary, because it looks like that the biblical pov is a mere myth. We have no idea about the end, and mainly it's a great reminded that the true end that is coming no matter what, is death.

There are million ways one can die in. There's no need for dramas and a long-list of events and headless horses.
Death is as close to everybody as their next cigarette or next sugary meal. Or maybe car ride under the influence. And my favorite: American "collateral damage".

Muslims should build and invest in making a better world for their grandsons, not wait for an apocalypse not known when to come but by God.

Here's a little tip: all predictions of "the apocalypse" are lies. Keep your hand on your ha'penny.

(February 26, 2018 at 1:35 pm)Cyberman Wrote: Here's a little tip: all predictions of "the apocalypse" are lies. Keep your hand on your ha'penny.

That's true.

I still remember the slap I took in 2013; I bought into the 'Mayan Calendar' stuff of 2012.
It's just making a sound to ease up death in my opinion, it's more exciting to many people and less scary to make death looks like a global event -same reason that makes you go to the theater to watch a horror movie- where everybody sees a monstrous antichrist and famine.

That ease up the fear we have from death.

Humans are pattern-seeking animals, always looking for connections that are usually not there. It's not enough that a ship sinks or a plane crashes or a building burns down - that's meaningless.

Quote:how the hell does the Quran say that Mohammed doesn't know about apocalypse's coming; but the scholars say that he knew?

The same way all other fictional religious shits are manipulated.  People revise earlier fictions of them to suit their needs.  Happens to fucking jesus all the time.

(February 26, 2018 at 1:30 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: In the Sunni & Shiite Islamic traditions, Mohammed knew when apocalypse is coming.
It is detailed in the Hadith books of each sect; despite the Quran -Islam's source book- telling another story:

Quote:Sura 79, The Quran:
( 42 )   They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival?
( 43 )   In what [position] are you that you should mention it?
( 44 )   To your Lord is its finality.
( 45 )   You are only a warner for those who fear it.
( 46 )   It will be, on the Day they see it, as though they had not remained [in the world] except for an afternoon or a morning thereof.

Quote:Sura 7, The Quran:
( 187 )   They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the Hour: when is its arrival? Say, "Its knowledge is only with my Lord. None will reveal its time except Him. It lays heavily upon the heavens and the earth. It will not come upon you except unexpectedly." They ask you as if you are familiar with it. Say, "Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most of the people do not know."

Until this day; Sunni and Shiite scholars couldn't defend the authenticity of their belief: how the hell does the Quran say that Mohammed doesn't know about apocalypse's coming; but the scholars say that he knew?

It's either Islam is contradicting itself, or the Sunni/Shiite traditions are contradicting Islam.
I believe the latter is true.

Sura 7, Verse 187 alone sets a termination for any Hadith speaking of the end; Mohammed didn't know a thing about the arrival of the hour. If we believed that the verse is divine; then only God knows when the day is coming for sure.

It is scarier than scary, because it looks like that the biblical pov is a mere myth. We have no idea about the end, and mainly it's a great reminded that the true end that is coming no matter what, is death.

There are million ways one can die in. There's no need for dramas and a long-list of events and headless horses.
Death is as close to everybody as their next cigarette or next sugary meal. Or maybe car ride under the influence. And my favorite: American "collateral damage".

Muslims should build and invest in making a better world for their grandsons, not wait for an apocalypse not known when to come but by God.

Atlass, I really DO value your Muslim perspective. But the truth is, the concept of heaven and hell, afterlife and the "end of the world" mythology is much older than the religions of Abraham.  Neither Jews or Christians or Muslims invented the idea of "the end of the world". Polytheists long prior had their own ideas. 

But I do agree, not just Muslims looking for the 12 Imam to signify the final battle, just as bat shit insane are our Christian right wing nuts who want Israel to become a nation to usher in their "end times". Even with Jews who want Israel to become a "Jewish state", I'd tell them Christians on the far right are NOT their friends, because these are the same people who say they wont get into heaven if they don't convert.  To me, that would be like me hiring a limo, inviting you to ride in it, but once we get to the 5 star Ritz Carlton hotel , I tell you, thanks for the company, but stay outside.

I cant stop you from believing in Allah anymore than I can stop a Christian from believing in Jesus, anymore than I can stop a Jew from believing in Yahweh. 

If your argument is "we cant know what God's plan is" and that is your argument against speaking for your God, great. I'd only argue that we make the same argument for all God claims. 

Don't speak for God? GREAT, we agree, but we'd say that to Jews and Christians too.

But I do agree, we need more, not just Muslims, but Jews and Christians and even Buddhists and Hindus, whom focus more on what our fellow humans have in common and less on using religion as political diplomacy.

It seems odd that a god would allow so much division and confusion amongst his followers. If only angels like Gabriel went public with their message instead of one-on-one cave encounters, perhaps this confusion wouldn’t exist?

(February 27, 2018 at 7:09 am)Antares Wrote: It seems odd that a god would allow so much division and confusion amongst his followers. If only angels like Gabriel went public with their message instead of one-on-one cave encounters, perhaps this confusion wouldn’t exist?

Yeah, like the aliens, they only ever land where there's like one person, never in the middle of Preston on a Saturday.

The Muslims got their apocalyptic bullshit from the Christians and Jews.They got it from the Zoroastrians. Who knows where the Zoroastrians got it from. Still spreading that childish nonsense to this day. One more good reason not to give a shit what the Koran says about anything.