(February 26, 2018 at 11:07 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(February 26, 2018 at 10:54 am)Cod Wrote: I don't like chicken.

You already said that mate.
By saying that you are satisfied with sex you automatically said that you are not interested in chicken.

I guess you never thought about that Cod, did you?  

When did I say that? And...If I wasn't satisfied with sex and seeking chicken, then I should be locked up.

(February 26, 2018 at 11:06 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(February 26, 2018 at 10:09 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) Evolution is directionless.

Correct, evolution is organic chemistry.  Chemistry doesn't have a direction.

Wrong.
Organic chemistry is only the physical aspect of the whole.
You failed to take into account the consciousness aspect.  

Quote:2) Individual who are not able to survive are lost for ever.

Quote:Of course.  You asked for an accurate description.  The question itself is irrelevant outside of wish-thinking because even within that context; the dead don't fuck..so they're out of the evolutionary loop regardless.

Wrong again Kem.
You assume that body death means total death.
Have you ever seen a dead consciousness next to a dead body?  

Quote:3) Evolution has no goal.

Quote:OFC not, how would it?  An interested individual might.  I like to breed flowers.  I have goals, but evolution is just a process.

Your assumption is baseless and wrong once again.
Anyone in chains wish to be free.
No one like to be in permanent chains that is why everybody aim to go higher and higher in his-her evolution.  

Quote:4) Evolution has no set speed.

Quote:Organisms have variable rates of reproduction.  The reason we use flies in experiments is because of their generation time.  It would be more difficult to experiment on crocodiles.  Mendel used peas to work out the basics of the rules of heredity.  

Speed is there.
An avalanche goes very very slow in the beginning but at the end her speed is very very fast.
Matter take million years the get out her slumber but human beings go a lot lot faster.
Consciousness works like an avalanche.
In matter there is hardly any speed but in humans speed is there so........WRONG AGAIN KEM.  

Quote:5) Plant stay plant animal stay animal human stay human.

Quote:Have you ever seen a human child climb up out of a head of cabbage?  Do you ever expect to?

Fool comment Kem.
Why a cabbage would turn into a human without first go through animal life?
Beside can you touch, see, smell or hear the consciousness?
Consciousness is not manifest in a physical sense so you will never see someone consciousness move from one form of life into a different one.  

Quote:6) Evolution is based on organic chemistry.

Quote:What did you think it was based on?

Once again you miss the non physical aspect of evolution.
In this way you miss the lot.

Fail again Kem.  

Quote:7) Evolution is driven by inherited genetic material, mutation, and relative rates of reproduction both between and within a species.

Quote:How did you think it was achieved?

My understanding is that evolution is driven by the desire to be free from that chain of imperfection.
The physical aspect is only the result of our progress or failing.

Quote:8) You are an animal, no further evolution required.

Quote:Animalia is the biological kingdom to which we belong.

If you are sure that we humans have reached the end of the road then bring the evidence that this is the case.  

Quote:All I did was to try to engage in a conversation that may better understand how evolution works.

Quote:and hows that coming along?

A total disaster.
Atheists know less than 1% of how evolution works but not all is loss Kem.
As the old granny said........IS NEVER TOO LATE TO LEARN.  

(February 26, 2018 at 11:45 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(February 26, 2018 at 11:06 am)Khemikal Wrote: Correct, evolution is organic chemistry.  Chemistry doesn't have a direction.

Wrong.
Organic chemistry is only the physical aspect of the whole.
You failed to take into account the consciousness aspect.  

Quote:2) Individual who are not able to survive are lost for ever.

Quote:Of course.  You asked for an accurate description.  The question itself is irrelevant outside of wish-thinking because even within that context; the dead don't fuck..so they're out of the evolutionary loop regardless.

Wrong again Kem.
You assume that body death means total death.
Have you ever seen a dead consciousness next to a dead body?  

Quote:3) Evolution has no goal.

Quote:OFC not, how would it?  An interested individual might.  I like to breed flowers.  I have goals, but evolution is just a process.

Your assumption is baseless and wrong once again.
Anyone in chains wish to be free.
No one like to be in permanent chains that is why everybody aim to go higher and higher in his-her evolution.  

Quote:4) Evolution has no set speed.

Quote:Organisms have variable rates of reproduction.  The reason we use flies in experiments is because of their generation time.  It would be more difficult to experiment on crocodiles.  Mendel used peas to work out the basics of the rules of heredity.  

Speed is there.
An avalanche goes very very slow in the beginning but at the end her speed is very very fast.
Matter take million years the get out her slumber but human beings go a lot lot faster.
Consciousness works like an avalanche.
In matter there is hardly any speed but in humans speed is there so........WRONG AGAIN KEM.  

Quote:5) Plant stay plant animal stay animal human stay human.

Quote:Have you ever seen a human child climb up out of a head of cabbage?  Do you ever expect to?

Fool comment Kem.
Why a cabbage would turn into a human without first go through animal life?
Beside can you touch, see, smell or hear the consciousness?
Consciousness is not manifest in a physical sense so you will never see someone consciousness move from one form of life into a different one.  

Quote:6) Evolution is based on organic chemistry.

Quote:What did you think it was based on?

Once again you miss the non physical aspect of evolution.
In this way you miss the lot.

Fail again Kem.  

Quote:7) Evolution is driven by inherited genetic material, mutation, and relative rates of reproduction both between and within a species.

Quote:How did you think it was achieved?

My understanding is that evolution is driven by the desire to be free from that chain of imperfection.
The physical aspect is only the result of our progress or failing.

Quote:8) You are an animal, no further evolution required.

Quote:Animalia is the biological kingdom to which we belong.

If you are sure that we humans have reached the end of the road then bring the evidence that this is the case.  

Quote:All I did was to try to engage in a conversation that may better understand how evolution works.

Quote:and hows that coming along?

A total disaster.
Atheists know less than 1% of how evolution works but not all is loss Kem.
As the old granny said........IS NEVER TOO LATE TO LEARN.  

1. Consciousness is a physical process. It is, ultimately based on organic chemistry.

2. Evolution is a theory of biology. It is a scientific description of how species change over time.

3. Except for any genetic aspect of consciousness, there is no aspect of evolution that is affected by consciousness. Evolution is a matter of how genetics changes in populations over time.

4. Because of the improbability of reversals of certain types of genetic changes, evolution tends not to go in reverse. So, getting animals from plants or vice versa (which would require a complete restructuring of everything from the basic metabolism to basic structural aspects) is impossible (well, technically possible but at such a low probability it won't happen).

5. That your understanding is that evolution is driven by a desire to be free only shows how little you understand about evolution.

(February 25, 2018 at 10:57 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) Is evolution based only in body changes or involve consciousness as well?

I think it's interesting to ponder how consciousness might have come about in the evolutionary process. Why would consciousness be selected for? It's a good question.

Would you agree that a bacterium has little or nothing of what we would call consciousness? Consider simple, single-celled organisms. There's no reason to think they are any more conscious than any one of our particular cells, right?

What I'm saying is: evolution does involve consciousness; that's obvious. Whether consciousness is rooted in materialism or not is a debate we can put aside now.

You seem to be suggesting that the "goal" of evolution is consciousness, but if that were true, why would we have variant levels of consciousness in the organisms that currently inhabit the planet? Wouldn't everything become more conscious? After all, we tend to think of an amoeba as a simple organism, but it is as much an evolved organism as any human being. Why isn't every form of life conscious since every other form of life has had as much time to develop consciousness as we have?

To me, the answer is simple: consciousness was selected for in humans and other vertebrates. It serves no purpose for simple life forms and therefore was not selected for.

(February 26, 2018 at 2:05 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(February 25, 2018 at 10:57 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) Is evolution based only in body changes or involve consciousness as well?

I think it's interesting to ponder how consciousness might have come about in the evolutionary process. Why would consciousness be selected for? It's a good question.

Would you agree that a bacterium has little or nothing of what we would call consciousness? Consider simple, single-celled organisms. There's no reason to think they are any more conscious than any one of our particular cells, right?

What I'm saying is: evolution does involve consciousness; that's obvious. Whether consciousness is rooted in materialism or not is a debate we can put aside now.

You seem to be suggesting that the "goal" of evolution is consciousness, but if that were true, why would we have variant levels of consciousness in the organisms that currently inhabit the planet? Wouldn't everything become more conscious? After all, we tend to think of an amoeba as a simple organism, but it is as much an evolved organism as any human being. Why isn't every form of life conscious since every other form of life has had as much time to develop consciousness as we have?

To me, the answer is simple: consciousness was selected for in humans and other vertebrates. It serves no purpose for simple life forms and therefore was not selected for.

If by conscience you mean capable of some level of awareness both are in way . I also point out that having a broader palette of senses and cognitive abilities. Thou maybe not needed would be useful .

(February 26, 2018 at 11:45 am)Little Rik Wrote: ...You assume that body death means total death.
Have you ever seen a dead consciousness next to a dead body?...

NDE's in 3. 2. 1...

(February 26, 2018 at 2:11 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

(February 26, 2018 at 2:05 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: I think it's interesting to ponder how consciousness might have come about in the evolutionary process. Why would consciousness be selected for? It's a good question.

Would you agree that a bacterium has little or nothing of what we would call consciousness? Consider simple, single-celled organisms. There's no reason to think they are any more conscious than any one of our particular cells, right?

What I'm saying is: evolution does involve consciousness; that's obvious. Whether consciousness is rooted in materialism or not is a debate we can put aside now.

You seem to be suggesting that the "goal" of evolution is consciousness, but if that were true, why would we have variant levels of consciousness in the organisms that currently inhabit the planet? Wouldn't everything become more conscious? After all, we tend to think of an amoeba as a simple organism, but it is as much an evolved organism as any human being. Why isn't every form of life conscious since every other form of life has had as much time to develop consciousness as we have?

To me, the answer is simple: consciousness was selected for in humans and other vertebrates. It serves no purpose for simple life forms and therefore was not selected for.

If by conscience you mean capable of some level of awareness both are in way . I also point out that having a broader palette of senses and cognitive abilities. Thou maybe not needed would be useful .

A bit off the original topic, but it's an interesting question. Does sensation alone lead to consciousness, or are cognitive abilities required too? My first answer is that sensation alone = consciousness, but I could be wrong about that. I haven't really thought about it much. Any thoughts?

Quote:..You assume that body death means total death.

Have you ever seen a dead consciousness next to a dead body?...

A conscious is the function of the brain . But i'm sure you can catch us a soul and show us it .  

LOL Tiz!