(March 14, 2018 at 2:51 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 2:47 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Because they are afraid thanks to their indoctrination or because they are determined to rape and pillage without guilt? It's not that hard to figure out, Alpha. 

Afraid of hell...which you go to for sinning. So, yeah, they're trying not to believe so they can sin comfortably. And most will get there. God generally doesn't fight them forever.

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Yes, according to the story, you go to hell for sinning -- the chief among the sins being disbelief in the Christian salvation tale. You haven't actually demonstrated that a desire to sin comfortably is the motive behind the disbelief. You've only underscored what we already know: indoctrination can be difficult for some people to shake.

(March 14, 2018 at 2:58 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I appreciate your trying but I'm not seeing how any of this explicitly constitutes a warrant from God to read the bible literally.

It doesn't. I was just giving you the verses I was referring to in my discussion with RR.

Why would you expect a statement explicitly saying that something should be read literally?

Alpha, have you considered being a Christian who isn't a YEC? Here are a few reasons (off the top of my head):

1) The 6,000 year-old universe is not central to Christianity. This model is pushed by people who want to see their iteration of Christianity have power in America. Christians having power and influence is also not central to Christianity. Jesus spoke of a heavenly kingdom, remember? Even Peter didn't get it. (read Matthew 16:21-28). In one respect, it misses the point of Christianity to be involved in Christianity's worldly power and influence.

2) A literal interpretation of Genesis contradicts itself: the day by day ordering of creation is different in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Since the 6,000 year old model relies on a literal interpretation of the book, this model is wrong right out of the gate because a literal interpretation contradicts itself.

3) You could even take Genesis literally if you take into account what is written elsewhere in the Bible: Psalm 90 (written by Moses) says: "A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by" (Psalm 90:4). Taking into account that one of God's days is an indeterminate amount of time, maybe Genesis spoke of things in terms of God's days. Also, some suggest that there is an indeterminate amount of time between Genesis 1:1 and the rest of the days of creation (perhaps 13 billion years?).

4) Christians often say that the essential part of Christianity is accepting Christ as one's savior. Then once you have done that, I read that Jesus gives a bunch of commandments about being a righteous person (ie treating others, including the outcast and downtrodden, with respect and dignity, enduring hardships with faith, not judging others, and forgiving them their tresspasses. It doesn't say anything about resisting discoveries in science. That seems to be something Christians do when they are interested in worldly power. Again, isn't it a heavenly kingdom? It's sad to see all of Christ's teachings about righteousness and forbearance (my favorite part) swept under the rug in favor of "I'm a Christian. I'm right about everything. Put me in charge!"

I want to reiterate. Being a YEC has nothing to do with being a Christian. Why don't you consider looking in to the science yourself? A bunch of atheists could sit here and tell you you're wrong, and you would feel like promoting YEC-ism is defending Christianity. But it's not. Look into the science yourself, man. Please.

By the way, your argument that you are doing okay in your life, therefore there is no reason to change your views is invalid. If a flat earther is living a good, comfortable life, does that mean the earth is flat? No. You could be wrong no matter how well or terribly your life is going. Get real.

(March 14, 2018 at 3:08 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 2:58 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I appreciate your trying but I'm not seeing how any of this explicitly constitutes a warrant from God to read the bible literally.

It doesn't. I was just giving you the verses I was referring to in my discussion with RR.

Why would you expect a statement explicitly saying that something should be read literally?

And if one did find such a statement, would one be compelled to take it literally?

(March 14, 2018 at 2:51 pm)alpha male Wrote: Afraid of hell...which you go to for sinning. So, yeah, they're trying not to believe so they can sin comfortably.

I've never had to try not to believe -- it came naturally.  I tried to believe, and failed.  My brain just doesn't work that way.

Quote:Afraid of hell...which you go to for sinning. So, yeah, they're trying not to believe so they can sin comfortably. And most will get there. God generally doesn't fight them forever.

Nope they have been indoctrinated into believing it sin and fear hell. And no they are not they have come to the conclusion (rationally) that their is fuck all evidence for the god they have been brainwashed into believing And the scare tactics that were used on them to keep them believing  have no real  weight  . It has fuck all to do with wanting to sin dumbass it's the rational conclusion that no such affliction has been shown to exist . And that right and wrong have nothing to do with magic and maintaining archaic and bigoted rituals that had no real worth to anyone to begin  should stop.  And there is fuck all evidence of hell so you waving you juju stick at us means fuck all .

(March 14, 2018 at 2:51 pm)alpha male Wrote: Afraid of hell...which you go to for sinning. So, yeah, they're trying not to believe so they can sin comfortably. And most will get there. God generally doesn't fight them forever.

Afraid of hell for not believing, actually.  So it'd make more sense for them to just believe, but they can't because it's all fucking nonsense anyway.  But they've been conditioned to fear hell by pieces of shit like you.

Look at Donald Trump.  He sins all the fuck he wants.  He even has the support of evangelicals.  Not once does he have to disbelieve in god to sin without guilt.  It just comes naturally.

So your argument, much like you, is full of shit.

To hell with hell.

The hardest part of casting off the religious brainwashing is the fear of hell . It's drilled in deep .  And is the religious parasites last defense . But reason can and will overcome it as long as one sticks to it. And once free from it the last chain binding someone to religion will fail .

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(March 14, 2018 at 3:42 pm)Whateverist Wrote: To hell with hell.

To super hell with hell

(March 14, 2018 at 3:08 pm)alpha male Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 2:58 pm)Whateverist Wrote: I appreciate your trying but I'm not seeing how any of this explicitly constitutes a warrant from God to read the bible literally.

It doesn't. I was just giving you the verses I was referring to in my discussion with RR.

Why would you expect a statement explicitly saying that something should be read literally?

My bad. I thought you were answering my question about biblical support for reading the bible literally which immediately preceded your post.

(March 14, 2018 at 1:53 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 10:41 am)alpha male Wrote: The plain reading of the gospels is that he endorsed a plain reading of Genesis. That's good enough for me.

I am usually the last person who would want to know anything about bible quotes.  But if there is actually a quote that directly addresses the manner in which God intended his acolytes to read the bible, I would really like to know it.

(March 14, 2018 at 2:02 pm)alpha male Wrote: Matt 19
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Jesus notes that man was created at the beginning - not after billions of years. 

Matt 24
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Jesus refers to the flood as a historical event.