(September 2, 2011 at 10:08 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(September 2, 2011 at 9:52 am)salty Wrote: Though science has bones, tests, and theories, they have no monkeys in the process of becoming human to prove the theory is correct, and they seem to have no way of explaining why apes of all kinds have not continued to evolve into humans. Don't give me the "it takes thousands of years" excuse, because if that was the case, they should be finding things all over the places of creatures in all stages of development.

The theory of evolution doesn't say that monkeys are in the process of becoming human, so it isn't surprising that we don't find them. Evolution isn't a single path from bacteria to human; ducks aren't "less evolved" than humans, or any other animal.

In Evolution, there are no goals; humanity isn't the "best evolved" on the planet, nor are all other animals evolving into humans.

I think if you want to understand Evolution more, you should read a book on the subject. There are many that people here could recommend to you.

You're right! If I ask people to give the Bible a fair evaluation, then I should be willing to give Evolution the same respect. I believe I remember William Craig talking about the different forms of it and he mentioned that one was solidly proven by science, but the other two were not firmly proven by science.

Quote:I believe I remember William Craig

A bible-thumping moron who makes his living selling more stupidity to the already stupid.

If you want to learn about biology, you need to read books by biologists.

I know they are harder but you should really make the effot. Unless you don't want to learn and merely seek to have your superstitious drivel confirmed by con men.


Your choice.

(September 2, 2011 at 3:30 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I believe I remember William Craig

A bible-thumping moron who makes his living selling more stupidity to the already stupid.

If you want to learn about biology, you need to read books by biologists.

I know they are harder but you should really make the effot. Unless you don't want to learn and merely seek to have your superstitious drivel confirmed by con men.


Your choice.

memo to Min:
watch your language, the thought police are monitoring your every post!

Quote:If they didn't have the tree, they would be forced to obey God for all time never choosing God. That's not real love, that's slavery. If God wanted slaves he would have made the angels with no will to decide if they wanted to rebel and he wouldn't have created Lucifer, since he knew that Lucifer would be the one to compel the others.

You've evaded the point a bit there. Do you acknowledge that it was set up. Rigged by god. God knew what would happen, he knew Adam and Eve would eat from the tree, he must of planned to kick out the both of them. Please tell me what the point of that was. Also why is the tree even required? He's all powerful and all knowing he don't need a tree there. And why the snake? One that talks?
Also, how is any of god's actions done out of love? He does force you to obey. Because if you don't you'll burn in hell. It's like standing on the edge of a cliff over looking a river of fire and someone says "love me or I'll push you off". You call that love?

Quote:With the tree and the commandment not to eat the fruit, humans were given a choice.

No we didn't. God knew the future. He designed and created us this way. We behaved exactly as should of. He can't blame us, he designed us and knew the future. God is to blame.

Quote:God is all knowing, therefore he was aware that they would disobey and he already had a plan to redeem humankind, which he declared in Genesis.

That's a lot of messing around. He could of not put the forbidden tree there and that would of solved the issue. Why the messing around? Why does he need to rig the situation? None of his actions make any logical sense.

Quote:It's confusing to think of Adam & Eve giving birth to so many children, and incest, etc happening.

It's impossible. Due to genetic disorders, caused by inbreeding. It's fatal. You've dodged the point. How do you overcome the problems of inbreeding?

Quote:but that missing information is not enough for me to doubt the existence of God

Nothing would make you doubt. That's the problem.

Quote:memo to Min:
watch your language, the thought police are monitoring your every post!

If things got that bad, I would start thinking about leaving.

(September 2, 2011 at 3:12 pm)salty Wrote: If they didn't have the tree, they would be forced to obey God for all time never choosing God.

Huh? This makes sense to you? If "God" didn't tell them not to do something they would be "forced to obey" for all time? They couldn't "choose" your deity otherwise?

Quote:That's not real love, that's slavery.

A being creates you and presents you with a command he knows you will disobey so he can punish you. Yeah... sounds like "love" to me.

Quote:If God wanted slaves he would have made the angels with no will to decide if they wanted to rebel and he wouldn't have created Lucifer, since he knew that Lucifer would be the one to compel the others.

So your deity created "Lucifer" knowing that this malevolent being would cause all manner of suffering and hardship among the people your deity supposedly loves. Would you buy a cobra and let it loose in your child's bedroom?

Quote:It's like an old fashioned arranged marriage, your spouse is chosen by your parents, no good times and bad times with a boyfriend or girlfriend, no chance to be dedicated to someone because you want to, no Notebook love, no P.S. I Love You situation. You would be handed your destiny with no arguments. Who wants that?

Well, according to you, this deity already knows how our lives will turn out before we're even born. If this is true, I would say that our destiny is handed to us with no arguments.

Quote:With the tree and the commandment not to eat the fruit, humans were given a choice.

No, Adam and Eve were given a choice. Don't lump us all in there!

Quote:Obey the commandment and resist the fruit or disobey the commandment and indulge.

That's how the story goes.

Quote:God is all knowing, therefore he was aware that they would disobey

Then why the test in the first place?

Quote:and he already had a plan to redeem humankind, which he declared in Genesis.

But "humankind" wouldn't need redeeming if not for your deity's asanine "test". And why does all of humanity suffer for the actions of a naieve young couple thousands of years ago? I had nothing to do with it! Yet I'm denied living in paradise because they fucked up? Seems to me that you can strike "just" off the list of qualities your deity supposedly possesses.

Quote:It's confusing to think of Adam & Eve giving birth to so many children, and incest, etc happening.

Yeah, because the story doesn't make sense, does it?

Quote:Cain married someone from another land

How could someone have come from "another land" when the only people on the planet were Cain's parents? My bullshit meter is going off.

Quote: so I'm really unsure where some of the people that were around came from,

Yeah, these Biblical fairy tales don't make much sense, do they?

Quote:but that missing information is not enough for me to doubt the existence of God,

I'm certain absolutely nothing will convince you that "God" is a fictional being.

Quote:it's not enough for me to doubt the Bible either,

When you've been indoctrinated to believe this nonsense it's difficult to shed those beliefs. If obvious untruths in the Bible don't make you doubt, I don't know what will.

Quote:it's just something that God will help me understand later,

If it doesn't make sense, "God" will explain it to me after I'm dead!

Yeah, sure.

Quote:as well as the reason for the creation of the centipede.

How about the reason for the creation of anthrax, smallpox, malaria, polio, AIDS, and flesh eating bacteria? I'd like to hear your deity explain why he sent us these little gifts.

And then their kids had sex with each other, and their grandkids had sex with each other. Incest much?

(September 2, 2011 at 4:56 pm)Santewi Wrote: And then their kids had sex with each other, and their grandkids had sex with each other. Incest much?

That's nothing! Lot's daughters got him drunk so they could jump his bones!

The Bible... a book you can read to the family!

(September 2, 2011 at 5:11 pm)Thor Wrote: The Bible... a book you can read to the family!

A comic book.

A Comedy book to make both adults and children laugh.

So, here's the deal, evolution happened, is happening, and (if every moment before this one is any indicator)will continue to happen. Rather than brushing it off and appearing to all the world as completely uneducated, you're going to have to find a way to reconcile this with your faith. I really don't know what else to say. If evolution were a theory (like natural selection) maybe there would be some leeway, but as it stands there just isn't. Adam and Eve were not the first human beings, nor where they the first jews, nothing. There were no such people, I'm sorry.