I just wanted him to explain it. I spent my grade and high school years in religious schools run by rabid pro-lifers; I know the ideology is full of shit. I figured I should hear him out to see how he reacts to being called out on his bullshit.

@RoadRunner79
Seriously dude, you can easily search abortion rates for different countrys, compare those that have the same abortion laws and you will see that those who have sexual education have lower abortion rates by far.
Than you can look at communist countrys in history(Romania before 89) and you will see that abortion didn't dissapeared but women had a great chance to die.

Edit:You have to think about this questions:
Would laws against abortion stop rape?
Would laws against abortion stop sex between teens?
Would laws against abortion stop pedofilia?
The answer to this questions it's obviously no. You have to realize that some words on a piece of paper in this case won't solve much.

(May 15, 2018 at 11:55 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(May 15, 2018 at 11:36 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Or C
I was talking about about certain Types of abortion, hoping to find some agreement, that it is wrong to kill your baby.

And using a less common method that's usually performed during a late enough stage in pregnancy that abortions that get performed then are usually due to severe medical complications that render it the least bad option (abortion for personal reasons during a stage where IDX is the best option to do so is very bloody rare) was the best way to do this because...

So then, would you agree with making those second and third trimester abortions illegal, except in cases where there is an emergency situation, and the pregnancy is putting the mother in immediate medical danger? As well it would be stipulated that emotional distress, does not constitute an immediate medical danger, which constitutes fetal homicide.

If it was illegal, then it would make sense not to bring it up.

(May 16, 2018 at 6:23 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(May 15, 2018 at 11:55 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: And using a less common method that's usually performed during a late enough stage in pregnancy that abortions that get performed then are usually due to severe medical complications that render it the least bad option (abortion for personal reasons during a stage where IDX is the best option to do so is very bloody rare) was the best way to do this because...

So then, would you agree with making those second and third trimester abortions illegal, except in cases where there is an emergency situation, and the pregnancy is putting the mother in immediate medical danger? As well it would be stipulated that emotional distress, does not constitute an immediate medical danger, which constitutes fetal homicide.

If it was illegal, then it would make sense not to bring it up.

No, because I still think keeping it legal would cause less harm than making it illegal. Just to take one example, when mentioning the dark days before Roe v. Wade, I mentioned the case of Gerri Santoro, who died while performing an abortion on herself (and became an icon of the movement because the photo of her bloody body was leaked to the public), because she couldn't get a doctor do so one for her. Hers was a late term abortion.

(May 16, 2018 at 9:03 am)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(May 16, 2018 at 6:23 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: So then, would you agree with making those second and third trimester abortions illegal, except in cases where there is an emergency situation, and the pregnancy is putting the mother in immediate medical danger? As well it would be stipulated that emotional distress, does not constitute an immediate medical danger, which constitutes fetal homicide.

If it was illegal, then it would make sense not to bring it up.

No, because I still think keeping it legal would cause less harm than making it illegal. Just to take one example, when mentioning the dark days before Roe v. Wade, I mentioned the case of Gerri Santoro, who died while performing an abortion on herself (and became an icon of the movement because the photo of her bloody body was leaked to the public), because she couldn't get a doctor do so one for her. Hers was a late term abortion.

I think that it is difficult to justify the killing of a preborn baby based on less harm as stated above. Given that a successful abortion results in the harm (specifically death) of a human being. This is the intended result. (Not exactly fitting under the Hippocratic oath. I’m assuming, that you are not trying to indicate that every legal abortion would result outcomes as you described above, if they where made illegal. While I think that it is difficult to calculate, I also think it’s difficult to say that less harm is done with legalized homicide.

How about, we educate people. Teach of the risks of doing a alley way abortion. Give them
support, and do every thing possible to discourage the on demand killing of these human beings. Would you agree to that?

(May 16, 2018 at 12:21 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: I just wanted him to explain it. I spent my grade and high school years in religious schools run by rabid pro-lifers; I know the ideology is full of shit. I figured I should hear him out to see how he reacts to being called out on his bullshit.

To be honest, though, the term pro-life is a misnomer. They're pro-birth, rather, because they don't care about the life once it's out of the womb.

(May 15, 2018 at 9:40 pm)Kit Wrote: A fetus is not an innocent baby.  It's a parasitic bundle of cells.

Looks pretty human to me.

(May 16, 2018 at 11:40 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I think that it is difficult to justify the killing of a preborn baby based on less harm as stated above. Given that a successful abortion results in the harm (specifically death) of a human being. This is the intended result. (Not exactly fitting under the Hippocratic oath. I’m assuming, that you are not trying to indicate that every legal abortion would result outcomes as you described above, if they where made illegal. While I think that it is difficult to calculate, I also think it’s difficult to say that less harm is done with legalized homicide.

How about, we educate people. Teach of the risks of doing a alley way abortion. Give them
support, and do every thing possible to discourage the on demand killing of these human beings. Would you agree to that?

This one I can actually get behind. I would still discourage making it illegal until we actually get to the point where abortions are really rare, which I honestly doubt will actually happen. The only way we can reduce abortions is by reducing the demand, and reaching a point where abortion is rare enough to justify its illegality may actually be impossible.

Also, given that the vast majority of abortions happen before the fetus has even developed the capacity to even be properly sensate (roughly around the third trimester, where abortions become extremely rare and almost always happen due to severe problems), it's really not that hard to use a less harm justification.

---

(May 16, 2018 at 12:08 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(May 15, 2018 at 9:40 pm)Kit Wrote: A fetus is not an innocent baby.  It's a parasitic bundle of cells.

Looks pretty human to me.

And, like Roadrunner, you chose to use an image of one at a stage when abortions become very rare. And, for the record, it's not exactly inherently parasitic, but it can certainly become parasitic in the wrong circumstances. Seriously, look at an acorn, call it an oak tree, and then tell me that a fetus still counts as a full-blown person.

(May 14, 2018 at 12:01 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:

(May 14, 2018 at 11:54 am)Minimalist Wrote: Balls.  It's about using pregnancy to oppress women.

Republicunts and xhristards are fine with doing that.

So you think that motherhood is oppression?  Do you think that we should up the abortion limit, until they are out of the house?

36th trimester abortion.

(May 16, 2018 at 2:33 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: @RoadRunner79
Seriously dude, you can easily search abortion rates for different countrys, compare those that have the same abortion laws and you will see that those who have sexual education have lower abortion rates by far.
Than you can look at communist countrys in history(Romania before 89) and you will see that abortion didn't dissapeared but women had a great chance to die.

Edit:You have to think about this questions:
Would laws against abortion stop rape?
Would laws against abortion stop sex between teens?
Would laws against abortion stop pedofilia?
The answer to this questions it's obviously no. You have to realize that some words on a piece of paper in this case won't solve much.

I've tried using those same arguments in this thread, but I honestly am not convinced Roadrunner even cares about the negative consequences of making abortion illegal. If "pro-lifers" did, they probably wouldn't be pro-lifers.