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RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 7:25 pm
The amount of words you've used to say nothing could sink a ship.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 7:45 pm
(September 8, 2011 at 7:23 pm)Fred Wrote: You are looking for examples of materialism being an a priori conclusion? They are littered all over this board and any other board where the topic comes up. It's a given that "there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for __," whether the blank is God, mind being non-reducible to brain function, or anything that isn't in line with the materialist view. That's an a priori stance right there, and the only interest anyone seems to have in any evidence is to see how quickly it can be dismissed.
Okay, let me see if I understand. This evidence is dismissed because it doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny, but the scientific method uses materialism as its basis for measurement. Therefore, the evidence against materialism is dismissed because it doesn't meet the standards of materialism. Is that it?
My attempts to comment on this further would be futile because I am not well versed in the scientific method. So hopefully someone more familiar with it can take it from here.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 7:55 pm
I dearly hope that isn't his argument
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 8:10 pm
It isn't possible to consider this evidence using scientific scrutiny. Scientific scrutiny is bound in the material, and so is limited as a method to understand reality.
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 8:12 pm (This post was last modified: September 8, 2011 at 8:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
For this to be true Frodo, you would have to have some knowledge of exactly what the immaterial is (to be able to make the claim that there could be no evidence, no way of knowing), and how exactly did you come by such knowledge without evidence?
This Russel's Teapot all over again.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 9:41 pm
(September 8, 2011 at 7:45 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote:
(September 8, 2011 at 7:23 pm)Fred Wrote: You are looking for examples of materialism being an a priori conclusion? They are littered all over this board and any other board where the topic comes up. It's a given that "there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for __," whether the blank is God, mind being non-reducible to brain function, or anything that isn't in line with the materialist view. That's an a priori stance right there, and the only interest anyone seems to have in any evidence is to see how quickly it can be dismissed.
Okay, let me see if I understand. This evidence is dismissed because it doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny,
The evidence is dismissed, period. Do you think everybody doing science is a materialist? You got the pdf for the application?
Quote:but the scientific method uses materialism as its basis for measurement.
Do the horse and the cart know about this switch in plans? Also, did you really just try to lay an exclusivity claim to the scientific method? What brass. Is this one of those things where we are going to hear that atheists invented science or something?
Materialism is a philosophy laid on top of science. This merge you guys are trying pull off is amusing but scary.
Quote:Therefore, the evidence against materialism is dismissed because it doesn't meet the standards of materialism. Is that it?
Uh, no. The evidence is dismissed because it doesn't fit your narrow view. The folks that developed the scientific method weren't exclusively materialists and it's hardly like you guys are the only game in town. Others get to use the same gear, too.
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 9:48 pm (This post was last modified: September 8, 2011 at 9:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You're right, the people who developed the scientific method, and many of those in the sciences today were not and are not exclusively materialists. It is the product of their efforts however, and not their personal opinions, that leave us with no reason to believe in the supernatural. It could have gone the other way, but it didn't.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 9:58 pm
(September 8, 2011 at 9:41 pm)Fred Wrote:
(September 8, 2011 at 7:45 pm)FaithNoMore Wrote:
(September 8, 2011 at 7:23 pm)Fred Wrote: You are looking for examples of materialism being an a priori conclusion? They are littered all over this board and any other board where the topic comes up. It's a given that "there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for __," whether the blank is God, mind being non-reducible to brain function, or anything that isn't in line with the materialist view. That's an a priori stance right there, and the only interest anyone seems to have in any evidence is to see how quickly it can be dismissed.
Okay, let me see if I understand. This evidence is dismissed because it doesn't stand up to scientific scrutiny,
The evidence is dismissed, period. Do you think everybody doing science is a materialist? You got the pdf for the application?
Quote:but the scientific method uses materialism as its basis for measurement.
Do the horse and the cart know about this switch in plans? Also, did you really just try to lay an exclusivity claim to the scientific method? What brass. Is this one of those things where we are going to hear that atheists invented science or something?
Materialism is a philosophy laid on top of science. This merge you guys are trying pull off is amusing but scary.
Quote:Therefore, the evidence against materialism is dismissed because it doesn't meet the standards of materialism. Is that it?
Uh, no. The evidence is dismissed because it doesn't fit your narrow view. The folks that developed the scientific method weren't exclusively materialists and it's hardly like you guys are the only game in town. Others get to use the same gear, too.
No need to be a dick. I was just trying to understand you, not making any claims. This discussion will go a lot more easily when you drop the pretentious attitude.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
RE: Evidence. Can't go there due to a prior committment
September 8, 2011 at 10:01 pm (This post was last modified: September 8, 2011 at 10:09 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
How dare you try to oppress him Faith, stop being such an ass....lol. Seriously, you keep claiming that evidence is dismissed, just provide some and we'll see where it goes. Evidence is dismissed all the time (even evidence that falls within the hated category of material evidence) no reason to blow smoke up anyone's ass on that count. That's how science is done. More is learned from ripping an idea to shreds than could ever be learned by sitting around imagining this or that. If your evidence is dismissed, it's more likely due to the inadequacy of the evidence for whatever proposition you've put forward than some conspiracy to suppress the truth of your magical theories. Now, if you feel you've been given the shaft, no worries, gather more evidence, address the criticisms, and come back to the table. No free lunch buddy.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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