(June 20, 2018 at 8:23 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Yes it is it does not matter what other presidents have done or have not done . Trump signed a weak deal that's not progress.

Repeating yourself doesn't make your comments any more valid, you do know that right?

Quote:I already stated what would be progress .Trump has not done it.

Well, unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what the word 'progress' means.

Dragging the country back to the 1850's is assuredly not it.

Quote:Repeating yourself doesn't make your comments any more valid, you do know that right?

It is if the original comment was valid to begin with.  

Quote:Well, unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what the word 'progress' means.

I didn't try and dictate what the word progress means .Though i have stated what i would consider progress . And Trump has yet to do it .

(June 20, 2018 at 8:33 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Dragging the country back to the 1850's is assuredly not it.

..... edit

(June 20, 2018 at 7:53 pm)Tizheruk Wrote:

Quote:I'm curious, what progress did any other presidents make with North Korea in the last 60 years?

You mean before bush ?

And were not talking about any other president were talking about the current one .Sorry your whataboutism won't fly here .

What progress did Trump make with North Korea, exactly?

(June 20, 2018 at 10:45 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(June 20, 2018 at 7:53 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: You mean before bush ?

And were not talking about any other president were talking about the current one .Sorry your whataboutism won't fly here .

What progress did Trump make with North Korea, exactly?

Did a photo op making a murderous dictator look good and got some vague promises that we can't hold Kim too some will say that's better than nothing i say it is nothing .

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Quote:It's not whataboutism if you are talking specifically about what progress is. In order to talk about progress surely you have to refer to one point in time to another, and in this instance compare one administrations efforts with another. 

Gotta love this comment 

No dumbass we can treat Trump in a vacuum without needing to appeal to the actions of anybody else . The actions of previous administrations mean nothing . Trumps progress is defined by how good a deal he got and he fuck it up royally .

If the suffering of 25 million people in NK was ended with help from the pres. then the suffering of Trump as president might be worth it.  But that's a conditional as wide as as the Amazon rivers mouth during flood season.

(June 20, 2018 at 10:45 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: What progress did Trump make with North Korea, exactly?

Started an actual dialogue? First president to ever meet a NK head of state? Agreement to destroy nuclear testing sites and stockpiles? Agreement to work towards lasting peace?

I'll be the first to say it's far from comprehensive, and I'm skeptical myself how it'll all play out but for fuck sake why are we pretending that no progress at all has been made? What delusional world are people living in where they literally cannot bring themselves to even acknowledge a single thing that Trump has done that is good?

There's thread after thread on this forum, some of them literally hundreds of pages long all bashing Trump saying everything he does is bad. But if anyone even dares to suggest that he did a single thing good, somehow they're the one that's delusional with their head in the sand and obsessed with Trump?

Can we at least show some intellectual honesty for once?

Trump is a dickhead, he's arguably sexist, bigoted and he's certainly not eloquent. But fuck me give the guy credit where it's due, it's not even debatable that he's made more progress with NK than any other US president.

Whos pretending..NK has made and broken every one of those "agreements" a dozen times with the last..what, 4 presidents?  Isn;t that why you;re skeptical?  NK, and specifically Kim....made progress with that summit, not us.

I;ll give him credit where it;s due. He legitimized an increasingly isolated despot and reduced the pressure that despot was under to improve the conditions within his country while showing the fundamental weakness of the current american administration.

-slow clap.

Arguably sexist?

LOL